Leader use, specific situation

[Solomwi]

I want to see how my thought process stacks up with some of you here.

I'm playing PTW 1.21, Regent, huge map, continents (two big ones and a handful of small islands), five civs left. I've won a cultural victory and am now playing the game out for fun, as if the win never happened. I just got a leader, and have cities building the UN (10 turns left, 96 shields committed), SETI Program (5 turns left, 520 shields committed) and Manhattan Project (3 turns left, 520 shields committed). The SETI Program is in my top trade city and all three are in my top production cities. I really don't have any other needs in any of these cities (except maybe a SAM that won't be used, but will let me build ID), and don't need to make more units yet. I'm the only one building any of these three wonders, and there's basically no way an AI could beat me to any.

I'm seven turns away from Miniaturization and The Internet, and have a prebuild going in my #4 production city (90 shields committed, will have 4 turns left when it becomes available). I'm also embroiled in a war on the other continent and plan to take out one at a time until that one's all mine. I have one backwards neighbor left on my home continent and 3-4 settlements of "western" powers (which will all be mine eventually, too). I have the Mil. Academy in a 100+ shield city (now building MP) and a large enough empire that I'm getting all the first level MA techs in 4 turns at 60% with plenty of gold in the bank (~28,000) and ~1000 coming in per turn.

I know what I'm going to do with the leader, but in the interest of learning (and to generate a little Modern Age discussion), I'd like to hear what course others here would take.

Rush one of the current wonders? If so, which one? Why? Army? Save him for Internet? If so, put it on my continent for the science boost or the other continent for immediate culture in conquered, non-producing, cities (5 turn border expansion regardless of resistance/disorder)? An improvement somewhere else? Palace move to new continent?

All input is appreciated.

[alva]

To be honest I think I would see if my palace needs replacing or even if an airfield wouldn't be of more use in a far away (frontier) city.
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Or start a new game on a higher difficulty level, you surely seem to mastered this one

[Rhothaerill]

I agree with Alva on both points.

Be prepared for a slightly more difficult game on monarch though. I experienced a bit of culture shock on my first monarch game when I got outexpanded and ultimately beat down by the AI. I almost went back to regent, but decided to stick it out and now I'm glad I did. When I'm not busy with democracy games and AU courses (and RL) I'm now trying Emperor level. Even more culture shock.

[Solomwi]

Or start a new game on a higher difficulty level, you surely seem to mastered this one

Lol, I didn't think that one would take long . Two problems with that: I'm obsessed with UP, and I'm scared . I played Monarch once, got drubbed early and, while I don't mind taking my lumps generally, didn't find that particular game fun. It probably is time to give it another crack.

Just to tip my hand a little, I've never done a Palace jump (usually because Newton's and Copernicus are in my capital or very nearby, and I hate the thought of losing the effects of those two). That's one reason I'm asking this, to get a little bit of exposure to the pluses and minuses of such a move. Also, with my treasury and income, I consider any improvement buyable in two turns, or one short-rushing a worker first.

Here is the save, if anyone wants to take a look for further information.

1655 Leader Save

[Rhothaerill]

A palace jump isn't always the right thing to do in every situation. Like most things in Civ3 it's situational. It depends really on what you want to accomplish. If you have a multiple continent empire and are trying to get the second continent to produce more then it is a good idea. However if it would detrimentally affect your core cities (i.e. a bad FP placement or the like), then I wouldn't do it.

One other tip on monarch...start slow. My first one I tried a huge map with 16 civs and it didn't work too well. My next one I tried a standard with 8 civs and that gave me a bit more confidence that monarch was doable.

I won't be able to look at your save until tomorrow (heading to bed soon), but I'll try tomorrow.

Good luck.

[vmxa1]

Without looking at the game and adding I would start anew game as well, unless you have not played through all the techs before now.
I would not hold the leader if you are still fighting as it will prevent you from generating another one.
So I would look at the front line and maybe bust in a catherdral to get culture going or an airport to jump units into that front.
If those do not make sense at this time, then an army is always useful in busting cities or sitting on them to quell resisters.
I would not be bother to manage cities any further. Drop the internet on the land mass with the most cities that do not have labs.

[Solomwi]

I forgot to add that part: I have built zero labs so far, am currently researching Ecology, and all my producers are on my home landmass. I've done the math and will be able to get Min. in 4 turns on 60-70%, so I'm thinking of not building any until I get them from the Internet on my home continent. Playing a custom civ that is Ind/Rel, making those temples and cathedrals nice and cheap as soon as resistors are quelled.

I normally play through the win until the techs play out and/or I need to "make more friends". I want to enjoy briefly this monster civ I've put so much time into building .

[rush]

Actually, you are way ahead, have won the game, so it does not really matter what options you are taking. But anyway, my suggestion is to try out something which you would not normally do. An example would be - I don't normally built a Wonder in another continent where I do not have a major presense, so that would be my choice.

If you however decide to finish the Wonders in your existing city - please switch the city production to something else, like Mass Transit, Tanks, Solar Plant whatever, and finish it this turn by rushing. Next turn, switch the city production back to the Wonder, use the Leader, and finish the Wonder. This way, you make full use of the shields already saved, and can make maximum use of the Leader. (I am pretty sure you already know this )

[inca911]

Forbidden Palace?

You didn't say if you have a Forbidden Palace built. If not (and if the game were closer), I'd take that leader to the other continent and put up a FP.

I will offer one bit of advice: quit this game and move up in difficulty. If you are this dominant, you need a greater challenge if you want to improve as a civ player.

[Solomwi]

Inca, I rushed my FP in Beijing after pretty much wiping out the Chinese in the Ancient Age, so I think I've got pretty decent FP placement with just a little core overlap.

And yes, this game is definitely toybox time. Next game... Monarch... maybe, lol. Can't quit yet, though, too much unfinished business (i.e. there are still civs left and I still have building to do to get my juggernaut up to full development). I generally play for the epic story aspect, and look at the victory as an event rather than a terminus (also the reason I always play huge maps).

Rush, I thought about that, but a) either way a bunch of shields are wasted, b) already have all the improvements I need (and can build right now) in my wonder cities and c) I don't want to expand my military yet. One more turn of the science boost isn't big, but is better to me right now than another Tank.

What I actually did was go ahead and rush SETI, just kissing away those shields as an opportunity cost (which was my one hangup on this course of action). All it really gained me was 5 more turns use of the wonder, but should let me bump research down on Ecology with two turns left, instead of one. The only other viable option I could come up with (besides an army, but even then I'm just converting him to 400 shields plus a convenience factor) was a palace jump over to a central Viking city. I may go back to that spot and try it, see how it works.

[inca911]

Did you lose the shields?

I hope you changed and built *something* in that city the turn before rushing SETI and losing the excess ~500 shields....

[Solomwi]

Nope. 420 of those shields are goners even if I do that, and the extra turn of doubled raw science output was worth more to me than the 100 shields I could have saved, and the Tank/Marine/Paratrooper/Helicopter it would have brought.