What to do with a trillion workers?

[vmxa1]

Not sure why I should presume that when they say they have all work done that they did not include forresting tunda tiles.
Anyway Radar Towers require Radio, Airfileds require FLight.
RR require Steam, and he says he is working on Demo and Physics. Not even in the correct age.
Radio is not in sight, maybe Steam is not far away, hard to say.
Does not matter to me, if I have scores of workers 50-100 (he says trillions), I do not need 15 natives doing nothing for quite some time. I may as well save the cash.
When RR get researched, I will have plenty of workers to get the RR in place in a reasonable amount of time.
That is all I am saying. Keep them if you like, but there is no good reason to do so under the circumstances given.

[Panag]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Not sure why I should presume that when they say they have all work done that they did not include forresting tunda tiles.
Anyway Radar Towers require Radio, Airfileds require FLight.
RR require Steam, and he says he is working on Demo and Physics. Not even in the correct age.
Radio is not in sight, maybe Steam is not far away, hard to say.
Does not matter to me, if I have scores of workers 50-100 (he says trillions), I do not need 15 natives doing nothing for quite some time. I may as well save the cash.
When RR get researched, I will have plenty of workers to get the RR in place in a reasonable amount of time.
That is all I am saying. Keep them if you like, but there is no good reason to do so under the circumstances given.

hi ,

a captured worker costs you nothing , .....

thats why they work so slow , ...

and thats why you can leave them standing on the side to build whatever you want with them , ......

and you can build outposts with them right after masonry , .....

have a nice day

[Solomwi]

You're right, mathematically. The only reason I keep natives around is I'm addicted to the indutrious worker, especially under Demo and with RP. And even then, in his situation, assuming all forestry work is done, I'd disband (or add to smaller cities where possible) those 15, then build them back right before SP in most cases. There are times, however, that those 15 or so turns of production later on are something I'd rather not give up, and when SP gets researched, I'm going to want every possible worker I can put on the railroad, including as many natives as I can put in the field.

[vmxa1]

I never waste time making outpost, but that just me.
I give up. The speed of the native is of no import if you have as many slaves as we are talkinig about, period.
Two slaves = 1 native and cost nothing.
A twice as fast native idles at the same speed a slave does. That is to say, if you have nothing for either to do, it does not matter how fast one is.
If you have a task that can be done by a native in 3 turns, that task can be done in the same three turns by 6 slaves and for free, no up keep.
If you have scores of slaves, you do not need to pay upkeep for natives while you wait for SP. You do not need the RR up in one turn.
In the end it does not matter much, it is a small edge.

[Rhothaerill]

Vmxa1 is right. It's a small edge, but that 15gpt might be the difference in trading for a luxury that would allow you to tone down the luxury slider one spot and bring in more science. If you have a huge horde of free workers like the example given, there is no point in paying one worker to do what two free ones can do.

[Solomwi]

As I said, yes, mathematically he's right. Hence my disclaimer originally of if he's not hurting for gold. I'm just hooked on clicking once and seeing that railroad go down immediately, or mine, irrigation, etc. If I'm in this guy's situation and have 15 gpt to spare, I'm keeping my native workers. If I need it for a lux, one more increment of science spending, or anything else, they're the first ones on the chopping block.

If you have scores of slaves, you do not need to pay upkeep for natives while you wait for SP.

As I said, the only case for this is if I don't want to spend the time to rebuild them right before SP.

You do not need the RR up in one turn.

Case by case here. I've had games where I'm right in the midst of war, and could have really used that newly produced Inf in a border city the next turn, rather than 2 or 3 turns down the road because of an incomplete RR line. I've never run across it, but could also see a case where getting the production boost to shave, say, Bach's from 2 turns to 1 gets you to it just before the AI. Once the cities are connected and powerhouses are railed, my natives go away again, leaving the slaves to finish the web at no cost. But for the real "necessary" phase of the railroad, I've never had enough slaves to do it in one turn, so I make sure I have as many natives as I can field with them until it's done. Consider railroads as a city improvement, as far as cost, and it's no different than rushing that temple, factory, etc. You may not need it this turn, but it furthers your empire to go ahead and get it this turn if, and this is key, you can afford it.

If the 15 gpt is keeping you from getting a lux, it would be asinine to keep the workers around. Perhaps it would help with the "every worker I can get" part to add that I always play huge maps, usually with 8 civs, so I always have a lot of territory to RR, as you saw in the .sav on the other forum (problem solved and thanks for all the help, btw).

Along another line, I used to use captured workers for colonies, airfields, etc. (though like you, I never build outposts, and really never build radar towers, either) until I slapped my forehead and realized that it was better to use the renewable native workers for that.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Rhothaerill
Vmxa1 is right. It's a small edge, but that 15gpt might be the difference in trading for a luxury that would allow you to tone down the luxury slider one spot and bring in more science. If you have a huge horde of free workers like the example given, there is no point in paying one worker to do what two free ones can do.

hi ,

agreed but , they need twice as much moving and when in war or for whatever other reasons it could be handy to keep a couple of your own just to speed things up , .....

actually ones you are in a democracy or republic it aint that bad , .....

have a nice day

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by panag

not to mention that a forest slows down enemy movements , ......

The AI is so stupid I prefer to fight them on open ground rather than on forests, it always seems to me the RNG is more of a help to them than whoever their strategic mastermind is

[Master Zen]

vmxa1 raises some good points on why to keep mostly slave workers, on the other hand, I value quick improving too much that I would much rather have native workers doing the burden. During the middle ages and later I usually try being a tech whorer, which means I usually end up racking big amounts of cash and losing 20gpt for those native workers I think is worth it, especially once you turn into a Democracy... let alone when you get Replaceable Parts.

Industrial native workers, with democracy and replaceable parts... it's a sight to see...

(again, just my personal preference)

[vmxa1]

I guess i am slow, because people keep saying they want to not wait and that is why they keep natives.
What wait are they talking about?
Need a road, if 2 natvis do it in one turn, 4 slaves will as well. Where is the wait? Moving them is the same effort as natives. You use J to move the stack, if it is 2 natives or 4 slaves.
I will buy any reason you want for keeping them except the speed factor. Remember we are talking about basically an unlimited number of slaves in this scenario.
We are not talking about 20 slaves and 15 natives, in that case I keep mine. We are talking about massive numbers of slaves, no good reason to keep natives, unless SP is just around the corner and it is not in this case.

[Capt Dizle]

If you are going to be at war during the pre-tank days using massed artillery, infantry for cover and cav for storming reduced cities, captured workers come in handy. The preferred method for running such a campaign is to place towns one tile into enemy land in such a place as to be able to bombard two enemy cities. This takes lots of settlers. Since those "staging" towns are size one, you can add a couple of captured workers to the town and then rush a settler which then can be used for the next hop. Captured workers are useful for building the railroad connections you need for this type of campaign.

Captured workers can be used to eliminate "fog of war" tiles in areas you don't care to use for towns. Barb encampments won't pop up outside the fog.

You can line your shores with workers and eliminate the possibility of the AI invading. Also, AI naval bombardment won't destroy terrain improvements if you have workers on the tiles.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Master Zen


The AI is so stupid I prefer to fight them on open ground rather than on forests, it always seems to me the RNG is more of a help to them than whoever their strategic mastermind is

hi ,

sure , wait till you see it being used in MP games , ......

have a nice day

[vmxa1]

Not to be nasty, but to bring up MP in an SP discussion here seems pointless.
I mean of course what works in SP is not always the going to work in MP.

[Panag]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Not to be nasty, but to bring up MP in an SP discussion here seems pointless.
I mean of course what works in SP is not always the going to work in MP.

hi ,

a forest slow the enemy down in both SP and MP , .....

have a nice day

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

sure , wait till you see it being used in MP games , ......

have a nice day

In MP most people disband or gift their workers rather than let you capture them... it is highly unlikely you'll end up with a horde of slave workers.