Overseas Conquests in the Middle Ages

[Arrian]

Yahweh,

I went and dug through the AU207 AARs to find something: my F3 screen stats during some heavy fighting. Reason? Because of the strategy forum warmonger types, I probably build the most defensive units (Nathan, among others, was amazed at how many I had).

Here they are:

78 muskets
5 knights
46 cavalry

So roughly 80 defenders and 50 attackers. That was partially due to the casualties I'd taken, so the normal ratio is a little closer. It was also partially due to having a huge empire with a lot of coastal cities.

I start out in the ancient era with more attackers than defenders. A typical ancient age F3 shot for me (once I'd gotten my army together) would probably show 15 spears, 10 swords and 20 horsemen, with some other assorted flotsam & jetsam. 2 : 1 attackers to defenders.

Later in the game, however, I like to garrison all my coastal cities with 1 defender each, border towns with several, and "colonial possessions" with a fistful. I typically do have more defenders than attackers by the mid-medieval era. This increases as the industrial age gets underway, since Cavalry's lifespan is almost done by then (muskets, however, upgrade to Infantry, which remains highly useful and in turn is upgradeable).

So, in the mid-industrial era, I may come close to 2 : 1 ratio of defenders to attackers. But then once Tanks roll around (heh), it balances out again (I have a tendancy of building 100 tanks. It's just a nice, big, round number).

Anyway, most people think I go overboard with defenders, and I typically don't get to a 2 : 1 ratio. You're past 3 : 1. That's a lot.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Crosspost with Dominae...

I hope Yahweh doesn't think we're laying into him here. This is well-intentioned constructive criticism, and I hope it doesn't come across as harsh.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Well, thank you for the advice guys. My pride is a little hurt, but it's for the best.

So you seriously mine every grassland tile until Hospitals?

As for the defensive units... yes, I simply haven't put in enough time to figure out my building queues for temples, marketplaces, etc., to figure out what the MINIMUM is I have to have to place to keep a productive city happy. Since I know I'm on a lower playing level, I just keep trying to make as many people as possible, as happy as possible, without thinking about efficiency. Next game I'll be a bit more anal retentive.

But, back to the topic on-hand: how to invade overseas?

I see little benefit to invading China. Sure, they're crowding my continent but while I attack them that gives the Arabs, who I really covet, more time to build up. Shouldn't I do overseas first and China later?

[Arrian]

So you seriously mine every grassland tile until Hospitals?

Not EVERY grassland tile. If a city has lots of mountains and/or hills, I may irrigate some tiles so that I can use the high-production hills & mountains.

I will irrigate juicy food tiles (cows, wheat, game) early on to get the cities to grow, but will often go back and mine over that irrigation once the city is up at size 12. Even when I'm growing my cities, I typically do not go over +5 food/turn. More than that is generally wasted anyway. Most of my cities (where possible) will be between +3 and +5 food/turn until they hit size 12.

Some cities will have food surplusses even with all tiles mined. I have a city like that in my current Indian game. It has 2 wines on grass & a wheat or something, with no hills or mountains, so it's at +6 with all mines.

The key isn't "always mine this" or "always irrigate this." The key is keep your cities growing until they cannot grow anymore and then maximize production. It doesn't take much work to change over to more irrigation once you have hospitals. Oh - and use granaries (you need much less food surplus to grow at a reasonable rate).

As to the China, Babs or Arabs question, I'll leave that to people who have seen the map.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Yahweh,

Conquering Babylon to get at Arabia is not such a bad idea, come to think of it. China will always be there close to you, ready for extermination. On the other hand, I doubt Arabia will destroy both England and Babylon before you get around to grabbing that continent, so you do have some leeway.

It's really up to you. If you were to focus on nothing but military from now on, you could probably take them all on at once. Now that's warmongering!


Dominae

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Well, I do irrigate, and later mine, the cows, so at least I'm getting THAT right.

Actually, as my landmass is small (by my standards) and I made sure to build a LOT of workers early on this game (which worked out nicely for me), I've got about 15 or so idle workers that I can set about mining grassland. I think I'll do that next time I play, and see if I can wage a two-front war! (against China and Babylon)

Maybe that will appease you Apolyton Gods.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Dominae
It's really up to you. If you were to focus on nothing but military from now on, you could probably take them all on at once. Now that's warmongering!

I'm gonna give it a shot. I'll try to keep Arabia neutral, while bribing the Ottomans (not England, same color) to turn against Babylon, and bribing Japan to take down China.

I'll just war war war until the cows come home. I'll mine every shield in the game, even the flood plains. I'll find a way to mine the ocean shields. And then I'll build six hundred and sixty six cavalry and launch a terrible unholy war. Hallelujah!

[the above was humor, laced with some reality]

[lmtoops]

When I get home, I will post my game. I look forward to all the feedback; good and bad.

[Arrian]

I just found out that my softball game is rained out, so I may be able to log on from home and check out saves & perhaps post my Indian game for you all to look at (by the way, I'm sure Dominae could find things I've done wrong - especially the city spacing).

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Good! The more saves, the merrier. Unfortunately, I may not be able to play any Civ for a few days, but I am serious about shielding it up and waging a two front war against China/Japan and "The North". I figure I'll stay in Monarchy and just wage an endless war, the point being a.) to generate GLs, b.) to use a variety of troops, not just one big cavalry sweep (efficient but boring), and, oh yeah, c.) to conquer my hemisphere.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Arrian
(by the way, I'm sure Dominae could find things I've done wrong - especially the city spacing).

/me just calls them as he sees them, (hopefully) unpretentiously

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth

So you seriously mine every grassland tile until Hospitals?

I have been know to be lazy in an easy win, but to answer that question.
Yes mine all grassland, not until hospitols, but until you are no longer growing due to lack of food. Lack of food not lack of aqua or hospitol.
I say it that way as I have hit spots were I was stopped at 9 for lack of food.
Now you do not have to list all of the considerations, such as a hill, shields or any terrain. Just can I grow or not.
Yahweh, if you are having trouble with spacing and hate to see over lapped tiles, try a size 19 pattern. This works well at Monarch and below for most games and uses all, but two tiles in each city.

[dexters]

vmxa1 , would you consider for example sacrificing perfect spacing to get a city next to a river and or to get say 3 bonus resources in its radius?

[vmxa1]

Of course. The spacing starts out as a perfect plan, but will fall apart as events occur. The timing of the collapse is usually sooner on smaller maps and later on huge ones.
I think the space pattern is more of a rule of thumb, unless you are talking about very tight ICS. In that case terrain will almost never get in the way.
I mean, if I plan on size 19, but bam there is water or a mountain in the tile I needed to use. Oh well I need to adjust my plan.

[lmtoops]

Ok here is the save from my game.

I am playing the Americans (random choice) at Emporer level.

I am a bit behind in technology. I gambled on getting the GrL, but lost. In retrospect, I could have done a better job of maximizing my shield production. I missed the GrL by 6 turns, so who knows I might not have gotten it anyway. I have no GrW; most of the wonders were discovered by the time I got the tech.

I've was buying my way back into the the tech race. Then I saw a window of opportunity. The Celts had several cities on my continent and on nearby islands. Although they had riflemen and calvary, these outling cities were defended by spearmen (supid AI). So I got an alliance with India and went to war. I've take control of my continent and got a GL (Future Palace) in the process. Also went to war with Russia (due to alliance). After the alliance was over and India had made peace, I made peace with Russing (1 city left). Hopefully I can milk them for more techs and then take them out.

I was hoping to have some success on their continent, but no much chance. I scoped out their nearest city and it has riflemen. My medival infantry are getting pretty useless. So I think it's time to make peace (for 20 turns or so turns).

My plan is to get the rest of my near useless forces. Land on their continent and destory a little. Maybe get a GL. The main purpose is to get a sweeter peace deal. As it is, they are so strong I won't get much. The second part of the plan is to get ready for a calvary war.

Oh well, I've talked enough. Now it's your turn.