Playing on Huge Maps: Final Report

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by georges bonbon
Has anybody experience on huge maps (archipelago)with 16-24 civs?

Nice work!

Thanks a lot and... yes, I played a couple of them. My 1 gp advice:

1. The Lighthouse is mandatory, specially to reach the 'small 3-tiles islands' in the middle of nowhere. They make excellent outposts.
2. The GLibrary is also very helpful: you want to put your research at 0 since units will cost you a lot (Galleys + military).
3. The land-grab is soon over (except for 1.). Most of the AIs will have the same size, therefore use a C-T-T-C grid as to pack 50% more cities in your empire. Take down another, max. 2 other civs soonest, raze most of their cities and re-build them on the above grid. You will have an empire 3 times the size of the next civ and 5-6 times as many cities. Game (almost) won.
4. Don't count on GL to speed up wonders. Warfare is tricky and you won't be able to build many units. Pre-build are essential.
5. Don't count on luxuries to have your citizen happy; count yourself lucky if you have 1 from the beginning.
6. Fire the diplomatic screen every turn. Trade everything is sight, specially maps, with everybody.
7. Techs: try to build an 'advanced AI group' and trade the newest techs with them. Nobody will have a lead, which is fine. Then, when hitting the Modern Age, go for the UN, then Space Flight and go for a Space Race win, and stop selling your techs. The AI will research some 'useless techs', as Recycling, and fall behind.
8. Rule your world as Duke Leto did: by sea- and airpower alone.
9. Keep us posted.
10. Good luck.

[athorpel]

I was asked in the thread that constructed this main post about wars by proxy.

It has finally occurred to my slow brain that I have not answered this query.

The type of proxy war I am talking about isn't exactly that. It is a defacto proxy not a dictionary definition proxy. An example follows.

My civ is at war with let's say China. I have a MPP with Greece and Babylon. Greece and Babylon share a border with China. Greece and Babylon are by design pulled into this war. All civs in question are far away from me. Either at the other end of my continent or on another continent altogether. They pound on one another for awhile. Maybe other civs join in, all the better. They are paying for a war and not for improvements or tech. You are officially at war but you do not have to put your economy on a war footing because of the geographic separation. It's a lot easier to do this on a huge map.

It is better to manipulate world diplomacy so that two civs are naturally antipathetic to one another and not rely on a MPP. Just be good friends with one and an enemy of the other. Not have any MPP's. Just go to war with your enemy and if you judged the timing correctly your friend will also declare war and keep the mutual enemy occupied while you go about your business. So that is what I meant with the term "wars by proxy".

There's more to this, because in actuality you are juggling several of these relationship groupings at the same time. You really have several friends and several enemies, because this is a huge map and you have 16 or more civs in the game. You cultivate and antagonize groups of civs at the same time. Sometimes things go wrong and two civs you want to keep alive and strong go to war with one another despite both being friends with you. But overall you are attempting to be the proactive element in the game and making the AI be reactive.

For me this is the fun part of the game. The most suspenseful.

Hope this answers the question.


Mountain Sage, great job putting all those posts together, it is appreciated. I also want to thank everyone else that contributed to this. I have learned a lot. It has given me the confidence to try a harder difficulty level.

[Theseus]

athorpel, thanks, I've been playing around with this concept a lot, and now will use your phrase for it: proxy wars.

A further note: Best time to do an IC invasion? After some proxy wars!! (I need an Arrian-type 'got to have all luxuries' emoticon )

[Arrian]

A :gimme: emoticon, maybe?

Call up other civs and just yell GIMME! No? Ok, you die!

-Arrian

[georges bonbon]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage


Thanks a lot and... yes, I played a couple of them. My 1 gp advice:

1. The Lighthouse is mandatory, specially to reach the 'small 3-tiles islands' in the middle of nowhere. They make excellent outposts.
2. The GLibrary is also very helpful: you want to put your research at 0 since units will cost you a lot (Galleys + military).
3. The land-grab is soon over (except for 1.). Most of the AIs will have the same size, therefore use a C-T-T-C grid as to pack 50% more cities in your empire. Take down another, max. 2 other civs soonest, raze most of their cities and re-build them on the above grid. You will have an empire 3 times the size of the next civ and 5-6 times as many cities. Game (almost) won.
4. Don't count on GL to speed up wonders. Warfare is tricky and you won't be able to build many units. Pre-build are essential.
5. Don't count on luxuries to have your citizen happy; count yourself lucky if you have 1 from the beginning.
6. Fire the diplomatic screen every turn. Trade everything is sight, specially maps, with everybody.
7. Techs: try to build an 'advanced AI group' and trade the newest techs with them. Nobody will have a lead, which is fine. Then, when hitting the Modern Age, go for the UN, then Space Flight and go for a Space Race win, and stop selling your techs. The AI will research some 'useless techs', as Recycling, and fall behind.
8. Rule your world as Duke Leto did: by sea- and airpower alone.
9. Keep us posted.
10. Good luck.

Do you get real good AI action?

Or is he just coming by with boring, bombarding ships and the occasional dropping of a couple stupid units?

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by georges bonbon

Do you get real good AI action?

Or is he just coming by with boring, bombarding ships and the occasional dropping of a couple stupid units?

Ah well, the AI is, well, the AI
Do not expect miracles in strategy and cleverness.

However, I find that plays on archipelago on huge maps with 16-24 civs are the most complex games in Civ3.

First of all, you have the logistics problems. Even conquering two neighbour civs with just Galleys is a challenge.
Then, you have often to battle coalitions of civs. Again, sending 30 Knights around the world (and reinforcements!) is fun.
To the above, add the scarcity of luxuries and/or resources. Either you go to war for (almost) each of them, or you'd better have your diplomatic skills honed.
Finally, with lots of civs researching almost at the same pace, getting the leader (or just building wonders) is another challenge.

Trust me, try once.