Your Building Sequence in the Early Game

[cumi]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
Very interesting so far...

It seems that building a worker is not one of the first priorities, correct?

Yes, I can live quite long with my initial worker. Actually there is no need in the beginning to improve the whole map. I improve 2-3 tiles for my capital, until I don't start a wonder...

I am building workers in very-very corrupt cities, where the growth and the time to complete a worker is same = 10 turns.

And when do you start building temples/granaries/barracks?

Granaries, almost never. Never...

Temples after Library and Marketplace...

Baracks in 1 or max 2 cities, where a the settler production has no sense, the potention for growth is verly low. Mostly in the cities in middle of forest.

Cumi:
as a 'French expert'

Don't laugh , I didn't tell, that I am an expert. I would say I quite an experienced beginner. I play France, because I think they are the easiest for me....

my building order is very often:
Wa-Wa-Wo-Wa-G-Se. The second worker (you get the first for free) immediately starts building a road (double-speed!), while in the meantime the first improves 4-6 tiles, then starts another road. Try it once and let me know.

I will not wait so long with the building of the first settler. Why do you need 4-6 tiles to improve?

cheers

cumi

[ghen]

Usually my 2nd worker is built by my 3rd or 4th city, and only when its going to reach size 3 or more which means I end up building something there first too, spearman usually, or archer if I brought defense with the settler.

[alva]

Cumi, try the granary route for once, I'm sure you'll be happily surprised. It's very powerfull, just don't get anxious at your initial slow growth.

[cumi]

Originally posted by alva
Cumi, try the granary route for once, I'm sure you'll be happily surprised. It's very powerfull, just don't get anxious at your initial slow growth.

You mean to build granary before anything else? Or you mean the Wa-Wa-Wo-Wa-G-Se order mentioned by Mountain Sage?

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Usually 3 or 4 warriors (especially when industrious, they'll be built rather quickly). 2 to explore, make contacts, fight babs or try to steal AI workers/settler. 1 or 2 for city defense.
Then it sure is time for the first settler.

Then it depends on circumstances, although temples are usually also high on my priorities.

AJ

[Epistax]

I've learned from this thread, I think I'll try out a granrry in my next game. I can't say I agree with a total lack of workers to start. It's always a top priority of mine to have my cities and lux's connected.

[Mountain Sage]

Cumi,

The reference about the 'French expert' was about me, since some people keep telling me I should play another civ, at least once! (which I did, and will do).

I build my Wa-Wa-Wo-Wa-G-Se sequence for the following reasons:
My first 2 warriors go out scouting. By then, I have irrigated+roaded 1 tile and mined+roaded another one. My city hits then size 3, this is why I build a worker now. Then I build another warrior for defence and happiness. By the time I finish my settler (after the granary), my city will fall back to size 3-4. Then I build anothe warrior for happiness+defence (as to not increase the luxury slider too high).
Afterwards, it depends: usually it's another settler, then a Wonder, or barracks+military if I'm threatened (on standard maps).
The reason why I build an early worker is that while the first one still improves the tiles of my capitol, the second one starts a road to where my next city will be. Then it will go on to the third emplacement.
In the meantime, my first worker will have improved 5-6 tiles around my capitol. Why so many? Since worked tiles give you more output that an unworked ones, your city can grow at least to sixe 6 and use all the worked tiles. The main reason why I do this in one shot is that after completion, my worker will do the same on city 2 etc. To backtrack and work tiles in your capitol is a waste of turns!
At least on huge maps, every city builds a worker at size 2. Since city 2 has the benefit of the second worker (the first one is out building roads), the other one will also build roads, to hook up luxuries and especially to speed up the next settlers. With industrious workers, you can build an amazing road network in no time, chich will help speeding up settlers and grabbing the best land. Besides, all city tiles are worked faster than the cities grow.
As for the G, I build it to speed up my city growth, either for a S factory or for a Wonder, since I want that city to size 12 (if on a river).
The time you spend on NOT building immediately a settler is well compensated by the faster settler output later on and by the time gained in getting faster to the right spot.
Try it once, and you will see.

[cumi]

Mountain Sage,

sorry about the "Frence expert" thing, I misunderstod it . If it was as I read it (very fast) at first time, would be true for me, too. We have to try some other civs, too .

I am a kind of visual type. It would be nice to see a graph about growth (number of cities) with and without granaries in (let's say) standard circumstances. I will maybe try this with excell.

BTW I made an excell table, for calculating the maximum size for a city. You "only" have to type in the number of tile-types available.

[Kirby]

Originally posted by Dominae
Single-Player, Emperor level:

Expansionist: Scout, Scout, Granary, Settler/Worker/Warrior+

Militaristic: Warrior, Archer, Settler, Archer+

Americans: Warrior, Granary

Aztecs: Jag, Jag, Jag, Jag, Settler

Dominae

What is your build order for Deity, archer/archer/archer...?

FWIW I just do the warriors then settlers at size 3 thing until I have 5 to 8 cities. IMO granaries are too slow on Deity... but then I'm not a _winning_ Deity player either.

[Dominae]

I'll get back to you on Deity...I'm still learning.

Granaries are still good, I think, unless land is in really short supply.

I would not recommend Archer-Archer-Archer on Deity, since it's suicide to attack the AI so early on, since it gets so many free troops (and it produces them so much faster).


Dominae

[cumi]

Here is the graph !

I made a graph, by simple rules. I am not sure, that my rules are correct under these conditions:

1. I took standard conditions:

- each tile has 2 food, 2 shield
- the core city tile has only 1 shield
- no corruption taking account

this means, the food box is growing each turn by 2. I hope this is correct.

- one city producing ONLY settlers
- the other one FIRST Granary then ONLY settlers.

The first city produces the following:

turn 32, 64, 96, settler

The second city:

turn 17 granary, 23, 39, 56, 73, 90 settler.

The following graph shows the food box. When the city size is increased by 1, the food box falls back to 0!

[Epistax]

You're saying a city building a granary before a settler gets its first settler done before a city that just builds the settler? Doesn't sound right.

--

I see the contention. Each tile has 2 food and 2 minerals? I'd say the norm is to have a choice: Two food and no production or one food one production.

[cumi]

Sorry, I just edited the picture just a few minutes ago in my massage.

[cumi]

Epistax,

2 shield and 2 food is a typical mined shielded-grassland.

....hm maybe its too much, thats, why the granary is done before a settler....

[Mazarin]

on standard maps, 60% water, emperor, I usually go with warr/warr/gran/settler/pyramids...all other cities will produce barracks, archers, workers and settlers (not dropping below size 3). I usually have a military force that is strong enough to take out an enemy -and with the huge benefit from the pyramids, the newly conquered cities will grow really quickly. On maps with more water, I won't build the pyramids myself, but hope my neighbour builds them for me.