Civ-Specific Strategy: French

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by dexters
Keep in mind that the Carthiginians are also Commercial/ Industrious. They also have the Numidian Mercs as their UUs.

I haven't yet played the Civ, but it looks like a killer combination.

Yep, same as the French, but with an Ancient Times UU (GA!). Look at the PUP thread, several of us played the same game.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

France vs Carthage

Sorry to dredge up such an old thread, but I felt the need to make a comment about the whole France/Carthage debate, or rather, lack of debate.

It would seem that Carthage has France beat... the AI certainly tends to use Carthage well, as opposed to France - well by AI standards that is to say. The NM is, seemingly, an awe-inspiring unit. In MP, doubtless, Carthage rules the roost.

But does it in SP? Sure, Carthage can defend itself fine using that NM. But if Carthage is attacked early on - and any civ is bound to be attacked early on if your map is crowded enough - it's GA is triggered. That means despotic (re: wasted) GA. France does not suffer from this problem.

Furthermore, look at their neighbors (if you play with cultural linking on). Carthage is up against the Greeks and Romans often, NOT your ideal neighbors. France, on the other hand, is up against a bunch of other civs WITHOUT a strong ancient era hand to play. Sure, the expanionists might get a tech lead, but there's no Hoplites and Legions around to block a French invasion, like there might be to block the Carthaginians...

I view France and Carthage as basically tied... hopefully, when C3C comes out, the Carthaginians won't be industrious anymore, but we'll see...

[vmxa1]

I think one look at the current AU team game will suggest that Carth is not highly regarded in an SP game. Of all the close civs, it was the last one to be attacked. It UU is mostly responsible for that as it is better dealt with in the middle ages. As Japan was one of the neighbors, it is better dealt with before the middle ages and was first to go. Of course the lay of the land will have something to say about things as well. That is going to be more of an extereme thing though. If one was in a poor location or had something you needed and the like, that will alter the course.

[Dominae]

Whether or not you consider Carthage better than the French in SP depends a lot on how important Spearmen are in your playstyle.

It is not rare for me to go all the way until Replaceable Parts without building more than handful of defensive-type units (Spearmen, Pikemen, etc.). I prefer being on the offensive, or, when not feasible, fighting an aggressive defensive war (i.e. attacking the enemy's units before they reach my city walls).

Therefore, early triggering of my GA with Numidian Mercenaries is rarely an issue: if all goes according to plan, I can trigger my GA at just about the same time that I would were I playing the French.

If all does not go according to plan (for instance, I start in a poor location, or I'm playing Deity and find myself next to the Germans, etc.), I am very very glad to have the option of using Numidian Mercenaries to get myself out of the bind. Early triggering of my GA is a small price to pay to basically guarantee you will at the very least survive past the Ancient era. The Musketeer, although arriving at the right time for a GA, really does not provide anything interesting in terms of the unit itself.

In short: Numidian Mercenaries are flexible (and in more ways than I described here). Musketeers provide nothing more than a well-timed GA.

I find very little reason to play the French in SP other than my (infrequent) desire to see the color pink.


Dominae

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Re: Civ-Specific Strategy: French

1) Avoid English Longbows

2) Avoid Germans.

3) Don't build the Maginot Line.

[bongo]

Originally posted by Dominae
I find very little reason to play the French in SP other than my (infrequent) desire to see the color pink.

Anything against pink

Seriously, couldn't agree more. Carthage is stronger than france, france is still a very strong civ though, due to it's trait combo. Even if you have to make it without a strong ancient defender.

[Mountain Sage]

An old thread resurrected...

As for France vs. Carthage, it all depends on your playstile and the situation you are in.
Since you are a happy warmonger, Carthage should suit you better. The NM are really impressive. Unfortunately, they trigger your GA, often when you are still in Despotism and in the middle of a war.
If you plan to fight a short/lazy war, try the following: go with Spears/Archers/Swords. 4 turns before offering peace, switch to Monarchy. 3 turns later, attack with your lonely NM. You get peace, your GA for city improvements and a better government.

Of course, if you play it nicely, you don't need an early UU. In this case, France is better (you often find in the middle ages a stupid civ landing some troops on your territory, defended by Musketeers...).

Again, since I don't necessarly play 'by the rules', I often win my games without even using my UU. I even managed to win with Scandinavia on an archipelago without building a single Berseker!

But Dominae is right: pink is quite...schocking!

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Merde to all of you! Zere is nothing wrong avec le color pink, eh?

Seriously though... that attack plan (for Carthage) sounds a little convoluted, MS, though I appreciate it for that very reason... and as a brief side note, I would like to mention that I too have triggered a Viking GA without the Berserkir, a unit I hope that goes from being largely worthless to immensly powerful when the Scandanavians are made Seafaring... but I digress.

I'll just have to give Carthage a shot on Monarch level I guess, to see how often getting attacked early is a problem... In the two successful games I've played so far, I've been attacked early (of course, I've also attacked early, myself), so in that case, early-GA triggering IS a problem... but then again, if there's enough horsemen around to brunt the attack... oh, I should just shut up.

The Numidian Mercenary certainly has cooler animation... although I am not so sure ze Numidians eh make love in ze way les Musketeers do, eh?

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
As for France vs. Carthage, it all depends on your playstile and the situation you are in.
Since you are a happy warmonger, Carthage should suit you better....
Of course, if you play it nicely, you don't need an early UU. In this case, France is better.

I think you missed my post above.

If you're playing it nicely, then you get your GA at the same time with either France or Carthage. You just need to be a little more careful about it.

In this sense the Numidian Mercenary and Musketeer are equivalent. Where they are not equivalent is the Ancient and early Medieval era, where Carthage gets an amazing unit if the need arises. France gets nothing.

This is all in SP, where you have more control over things. In MP, I still recommend Carthage over France, but for different reasons.

But Dominae is right: pink is quite...schocking!

I have nothing against the color pink, it's just usually not a good enough reason for me to pick the French.


Dominae

[Arrian]

There really isn't much difference between the two. The Numidian, while strong, is expensive. Against the AI, most of the time I'd rather be able to build spearmen. Avoiding having your GA triggered is no big deal, really. Have a few archers around until you have a swordsman force. Just don't use the Numidians. It's really not *that* restricting.

Sometimes a late ancient/early medieval GA is better than a mid-middle ages GA (musketeer). With the Numidian, you can choose. With the Musketeer, you must wait (or trigger via wonders).

-Arrian

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
Merde to all of you! Zere is nothing wrong avec le color pink, eh?

Seriously though... that attack plan (for Carthage) sounds a little convoluted, MS, though I appreciate it for that very reason... and as a brief side note, I would like to mention that I too have triggered a Viking GA without the Berserkir, a unit I hope that goes from being largely worthless to immensly powerful when the Scandanavians are made Seafaring... but I digress.

The Numidian Mercenary certainly has cooler animation... although I am not so sure ze Numidians eh make love in ze way les Musketeers do, eh?

Convoluted? of course!
By now you know I don't (always) play by the rules. Sometimes, I just go to war to trigger the GA if I don't have the proper set of Wonders. Since on Emperor I often don't grab more than 1 Ancient Wonder (peacefully, that is), my attack plan triggers my GA without much trouble. After 5 turns or so, I sue for peace.
But I can be even more convoluted: I usually trigger my GA WITH THE MUSKETEER, as to be sure to grab SmithTC and the Sixtine...

As for making love, I see the difference as following;
The NM has to take out his sword from his sheath (or is he carring his big spiky ball around?, I can't remember), whereas the Musketeer has to put one or two balls in it and has then to prime it.

P.S. Dominae: you are right of course, with the NM, you feel less... naked.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Ok, threadjacking time, sort of. I feel justified in this threadjack as I'm about to ask you all for advice regarding my current game as the French. Attached please find the file.

Bear in mind this is my second game on Monarch level. My goal is, as always, domination victory, but I'd be happy just ruling the entirety of my continent.

I am aware that my city spacing is not perfect. And yes, I am aware I should not be in despotism at this point... Furthermore, I do know that there's plenty of good land I should have settled already - I'm settling it now, ok? So just back off man.

I do have a few, looming questions that I need answered (please). They affect the future course of my whole empire. I built a very pretty core, with the Great Library (god bless) and the HG, and attacked my southern neighbors, Spain, England, and Rome, pretty much obliterating them (Rome is still being routed). Now my questions are: Who should I hit next? Should I go ahead and start attacking them with swords and horsemen, hoping to acquire Chivalry via the GL en route? Or should I hold off, switch to a more advanced government and develop my core, while beelining to MT?

Bear in mind that my goal is continental domination. That means, NO civs to be left alive (other than some "city states" that I can probably live with). That's why I'm buildign my FP one city away from my Palace - I intend to move my Palace to somewhere in Egypt or Carthage eventually, to be most effective in fighting corruption.

(If I get theology in the next ~10 turns, I may switch production from the FP to Sistine's, of course; no big loss)

I am, as before, a little nervous about attacking my larger, Southern neighbors with my horsemen and swordsmen. That's why I want everyone's advice. Does it look like I can make it? Or should I dilly dally, mop up the Vikings, Russians and Germans perhaps, and wait until Cavalry to take on the Celts, Egyptians and Carthaginians?

Please, all your Francophiles and Francophobes, warmongers and peacemakers: I NEED YOUR ADVICE!!!

[Harovan]

Shortly, because I'm tired as hell:

- Yes, get the hell out of Despotism
- Irrigate those effin' plains near Brest/Bayonne/Poitiers. I can't see large fields of mined plains. Don't say there's no water. Irrigate from Paris, you're industrious. Yes, you will screw some mines on the way, but you can re-mine them after the water reached the plains.
- Build Courthouses in cities farther than ~6-7 tiles from your capital. It pays off!
- Continue warring if you want, but France is a great UP civ and always good for a great "diplomacy" style game. I would not conquer the world, I would buy it, if you know what I mean.
- Your desired palace jump is ok. If you decide to stop warfare, Valencia is a great city for the new one (or for a FP, for that matter)

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
- Yes, get the hell out of Despotism
- Irrigate those effin' plains near Brest/Bayonne/Poitiers. I can't see large fields of mined plains. Don't say there's no water. Irrigate from Paris, you're industrious. Yes, you will screw some mines on the way, but you can re-mine them after the water reached the plains.
- Build Courthouses in cities farther than ~6-7 tiles from your capital. It pays off!

All good points, and well taken.

As for the rest... well, what can I say? I must have those lands, I will have those lands. What do you think of my chances of taking them?

Thanks for looking at the game. I appreciate all feedback (even if I can't live with PUP)

[Nor Me]

Yes, switch to Republic now.

The Egyptians have no Iron and so should certainly be the next target. I'd be attacking them as soon as you've finished with the Romans. Horsemen and swordsmen are good enough against spearmen and horsemen.

The FP is good where it is. You certainly have enough elites to expect a leader soon if you keep fighting so I'd try and conquer the best spot for your palace as soon as possible. If that means attacking carthage with Knights then it'd be worth it.

You don't really need to hold off attacking any civ until they have Gunpowder. I'd try and control this continent with knights simply because it would be better to research the upper path. Fight now to be a better builder later. I'd try and have the palace and FP placed right and have things to build before triggering your golden age.