Ultimate Power: a more pragmatic approach

[vmxa1]

To me it is wrong, but that is not really the issue. What is definetly wrong is to use a non standard method and not mention that fact, if that is what is going on.
IOW, if you reload to do it, that is not right, but at least say that and no will wonder what is happening. They will either think that is fine or it not, but will not ask any explainations. I am not so sure that it can be done that way. If it can it would require a horrendous amount of reloading. That is not my idea of fun, especially when you do not need all the wonders anyway.

[fanes7]

ÔÚÓÎÏ·µÄ¿ªÊ¼£¬Ëæ»úÖÖ×ÓÊDZ»±£´æµÄ£¬Õâ¾ÍÊÇ˵£¬¸ÃÓÎÏ· µÄsavefile¶ÔÓÚµçÄÔºÍÈË£¬ÒÔ¼°ÆäËûͨ¹ýsavefile²ÎÓëÓÎ Ï·µÄÈËÀ´Ëµ£¬¶¼Êǹ«Æ½µÄ£¬²»´æÔÚÄãËù˵µÄslµÄÎÊÌâ¡£¶Ô ÓÚÒ»¸ö»ØºÏÖƵÄÓÎÏ·£¬slÊÇÍæÕâ¸öÓÎÏ·×îÆðÂëµÄ¹æÔò£¬Òò ΪÄã²»¿ÉÄÜÒ»´Î°ÑÕâ¸öÓÎÏ·ÍæÍ꣬Äã±Ø¶¨»áÔÚÍæÒ»Á½¸öС ʱºó±£´æÍ˳ö£¬È»ºó¹ýÒ»¶Îʱ¼äÔÙÍ棬ÕâÊǻغÏÖÆÓÎÏ·µÄ ¹æÔò£¬ÄãÎÞ·¨¸Ä±ä¡£ÔÚ·¨ÂÉÔÊÐíµÄ·¶Î§ÄÚ£¬Òò´ËÕâ²»ÊÇÆÛ Æ¡£ÎÒÊÇÒ»¸ö¹Ç»Ò¼¶µÄÍæ¼Ò£¬ÎÒ×îºÞÆÛÆÁË£¬ºÇºÇ¡£

At the beginning of game, the random seed is saved, it means that : A savefile of the game is fair for the man&computer and other player who participate in this game, there is no the SL problem which you said.

The SL law is a essential formula in a bout-game. For a bout-game, you can't finish it at one time, you always maybe play it one or two hours, and after several days, you keep on playing it by the savefile. That is the bout-game law , you can't change it. In the range of the law , so it can't be cheat , I am a professional&grandmaster player , I hate cheating very much.

[Theseus]

xinyue, much of your last post was mangled (translation problems?) for western posters, me at least.

fanes7 is interesting to me. While there are the outstanding issues of gameplay success, GLs, GWs, etc., his/her postings have also indicated a "metagame" view... which I appreciate.

Simple answer: fanes7, will you participate in either the current AU game (209), any previous AU game, or the next AU game? Part of the process would be keeping all saves, posting those requested, and posting detailed During Action Reports (DARs).

I look forward to fanes7 performance as something to learn from.

Or not.

[Dominae]

I would rather point fanes7 to the Game of the Month, over at CFC. They are better-equipped and more used to dealing with these kinds of things.

fanes7, if you want to prove your skill, GOTM is the place to do it.


Dominae

[Tassadar500]

Did fanes7 just admit to reloading the save?

[fanes7]

some AU such as no gold for you is a affliction for me, I think the whys player play a game is for happy , not for excruciation or education(being engrafted other's ideology) . so make happy , why not do it ?

I will try some AU , but not all, because some of them is not very good for a player. Can you recommend some interested AU for me ? I am very grateful , thanks !

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by fanes7
At the beginning of game, the random seed is saved, it means that : A savefile of the game is fair for the man&computer and other player who participate in this game, there is no the SL problem which you said.

The SL law is a essential formula in a bout-game. For a bout-game, you can't finish it at one time, you always maybe play it one or two hours, and after several days, you keep on playing it by the savefile. That is the bout-game law , you can't change it. In the range of the law , so it can't be cheat , I am a professional&grandmaster player , I hate cheating very much.

My issue is the following. I do not doubt that you might have gotten 5 leaders with archers. Sure, it's an incredible stroke of luck but perhaps within the outer bounds of reason. I was chatting about this with Arnelos a few hours ago and he was telling me he once got 3 but recognized it was a one-thing affair and never ever even remotely came close to repeating that feat. Of course I believe him since it is possible.

However, I'm sorry to say that I find this occuring everytime playing Deity to be simply ludicrious. Go look at the reports from GOTM at CFC from their top players and nobody netted all ancient age wonders. And trust me, I've seen some deity games from guys like SirPleb which are simply stunning. And none comes close to matching this feat.

So, again, I don't want to sound like we're dissing off an amazing feat of civving. If you got 5 leaders in this game, I believe you. If you say you always get so many in every deity game, I have no choice but to be a total skeptic and ask for some irrefutable proof. Some of these guys in this forum are very experienced players too so it's not just me who thinks this a wee bit on the exaggerated side.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by fanes7
some AU such as no gold for you is a affliction for me, I think the whys player play a game is for happy , not for excruciation or education(being engrafted other's ideology) . so make happy , why not do it ?

I will try some AU , but not all, because some of them is not very good for a player. Can you recommend some interested AU for me ? I am very grateful , thanks !

fanes7,

I think people just want a straight answer (forgetting for a moment if there are laws or if it is right or wrong):

Do you or do you not reload the game to get the results that you want with the leaders?

Again, we're not saying it's wrong since it's a game and you can play as you wish. It isn't cheating either since this is not a competition game and no rules have been officially definied. However, people would like to know if you did things on purpose to provoke such an abnormal # of leaders.

If not, then dammit, tell us how you get them so easily!!?!?!?!

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by fanes7
At the beginning of game, the random seed is saved, it means that : A savefile of the game is fair for the man&computer and other player who participate in this game, there is no the SL problem which you said.

The SL law is a essential formula in a bout-game. For a bout-game, you can't finish it at one time, you always maybe play it one or two hours, and after several days, you keep on playing it by the savefile. That is the bout-game law , you can't change it. In the range of the law , so it can't be cheat , I am a professional&grandmaster player , I hate cheating very much.

I am not sure I understand this SL and Law part. Does it mean Save and Load? There are no laws controlling it, just preference and common opinion.
If you mean the RNG is saved at the start and the game is set to preserve it, that is the norm. It does not prohibit reloads and changing of action to alter outcomes, but it does make it more problematic.
So to reiterate what Master Zen asked, are you saying you are not reloading games? I guess I am beating a drum, but I will flat out refuse to believe it is possible to playing any style that guarantees always getting leaders in such a timely fashion as to get all wonders at deity. In fact I doubt it can be done at any level. The only difference is as the lowest levels you can get the wonders with out leaders. At even emperor, I do not see anyone getting all wonders in a straight forward manner. By that I mean no reloads, if you can, then you are indeed a grandmaster, maybe the grandest of them all. I guess someone has to have the title.

[xinyue]

I found a thread research for Militaristic trait:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=62902

Qitai's post
non-militaristic civ vs. non-barbarians:
conscript to regular: 1 in 2
regular to veteran: 1 in 4
veteran to elite: 1 in 8

This mean you get elite unit for average 8 victories, also explain why I have only few units get to promotion.

Raidne's post
Militaristic: 1005 battles 53 GL
Non Militaristic: 1005 battles, 47 GL

This means you get 1GL average 20 victories.

In my game, with only one anchor or warrior I will never try to attack the AI's city defended by a pikeman or two. If I get the victory, it's luck, but in many case it is be a fool for one's pains, the safe attack method I think that at least need 2 times unit I can start the attack. Is it too safe?

Theseus: Sorry for my previous post, it's my first post in Apolyton, I don't know my unbreak statement cause mangled, I will edit the post and try to fix it.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Jeez guys, isn't it possible that Fanes7 just got really lucky? Besides, he wasn't trying to prove a point really, was he? Just posting a series of screenshots... if he was cheating to prove some sort of argument, then that's one thing, but if he's just cheating on his own, then I say more power to him! I've been playing one game for about a week now, attacking constantly and almost always with elites, and have hardly generated 1 leader to my name. I'd damn well like to cheat!

Sorry to a pisser. I just would hate to see Fanes7 scared away from Apolyton because he thinks everyone hates him.

[Arrian]

I'm not making any judgements one way or the other. I've gotten pretty lucky with early leaders (I don't think THAT lucky, though) in my time, so I don't reject the possibility that fanes7 did just get really lucky (in conjunction with using his elite units well).

However, fanes' claims re: getting all wonders on Deity sound outrageous. Look, I have probably as much experience with leader generation as anyone here. I'm a little nutty with it, actually. So I feel I have a pretty good grasp of what can and cannot be done (on a consistent basis).

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I'm gonna go ahead and quickly retract my comment before I draw any serious ire.

FANES7, EXPLAIN YOURSELF, YOU CUR!

[vmxa1]

Really, I think people are not being mean, they are mostly just asking. I think most would be happy to know it was true and if it was luck or what. Well it cannot be luck if you can do it every game. It has to be some heretofore unknown strategy or nefarious.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by xinyue
In my game, with only one anchor or warrior I will never try to attack the AI's city defended by a pikeman or two. If I get the victory, it's luck, but in many case it is be a fool for one's pains, the safe attack method I think that at least need 2 times unit I can start the attack. Is it too safe?

If you have an archer or a warrior and going to attack an AI city defended by pikemen, don't you think you're a bit behind in techs?

The "calculation" I use when attacking cities is at least twice their defensive strength in attack. So, if I'm going up on a city with 2 spearmen, I will take at least 4 archers to attack it (preferrably more).