Gettin' Your Palace On

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

The whole point of taking those guys on now would be to teach myself to be a better warmonger. And for UP.

I hope the whole point of this thread isn't bunk now that I've built my palace...

[Arrian]

Being a good warmonger also involves picking your targets wisely.

It may be that whacking the Ottomans & Celts is a good idea. I don't know, since I haven't seen the map.

Or it may be that your empire would be better served by invading an overseas civ.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I might do overseas... they're all a little too large to take on without significant war weariness.

I'm thinking about cruising for the modern age and waging a modern war... I do that rarely, and they're good fun...

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Don't Hesitate to Move Your Palace with GLs

I just wanted to note the last two games in a row I've moved my palace using a GL, for the first (2) times. In my current game, as Russia, I've done it twice.

If you can generate the necessary GL, I highly recommend moving your palace to your newly conquered lands as often as possible! A wonderful tactic! I took diplaptidated England/Scandanavia, moved my palace to Trondheim (leaving my FP near Moscow, in Smolensk I believe), and built that area into something worthwhile.

Not knowing what to do with my knights (and, soon, cossacks - great unit!), I decided to gamble on attacking well-developed France and Spain. I thought I'd grab a few cities and dilipidate my fighting force on a few expensive battles, just prior to entering democracy.

But I did better than expected, and when cossacks came along, I committed to wiping these nations out! Bear in mind, they're in the South, with Russia in the north, and Russia not being commercial, my captured cities were quite prone to corruption...

...well, I got several GLs and used one AGAIN to move my palace! Twice in the same game; I thought I'd never see it. Now my capital is Tours, and I have two major industrial "zones": Russia and Spain/France. Furthermore, aside from a Celts and a few straggler cities, I have the whole huge continent to myself.

So, end of story: to all you less experienced players, do experiment with moving your palace. I know it's tempting to build wonders in one turn, but unless you're in a race for one, remember that a GL have give you, potentially, a NEW CORE AREA in addition to the one you've got, assuming you built your FP in your core area.

That, IMO, is a lot more valuable than just one wonder.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Arrian
You've gotten your leader, so the whole purpose behind the MGW is irrelevant. Now you should only fight if it provides you with an advantage (productive cities, close enough to your Palace? Luxuries?). Those civs *may* be worth more alive than dead, if you can sell them luxuries for GPT.

-Arrian

Just wanted to note that after I used my GL to move my palace to Vladivostok, I won a cultural victory that netted me my highest civ score ever.

Not that that score compares to even a typical one of player such as yourself, or Catt or Dominae or any of you "big boys" around here, but me it was quite an accomplishment, and I credit it to having added Germany/Russia to my "industrial base".

I won before I got the opportunity to take on the Ottomans and/or Celts.

[Arrian]

Yahweh,

Well done!

I'm glad you've discovered the awesome power of moving your palace. I have occasionally done multiple palace moves (though I do typically try and conquer my way to an "ideal" spot ASAP and just do it once), such as in AU207, where I moved my palace first to Berlin, and then to Tanis (I built it next to the ruins of an American city).

I think it was Catt who posted a thread about multiple palace moves and how you could use it to build up areas of your empire sequentially, to the point where once you moved the palace away, an area would remain relatively productive because you had the chance to build courthouses, markets, etc. while the Palace was in the vicinity.

That's what I did with Germany in AU207. The cities surrounding Berlin built courthouses right away, even though they didn't really need them at the time, so that when I moved the Palace farther north, Germany would remain productive. It worked fairly well.

The difficulty, of course, is generating the leaders necessary to do this, and resisting the temptation to use said leaders on Wonders. Hence my obssession with leader generation... which I feel I've got down pat now.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

It does all come down to the leaders... as I've *****ed about before, I seem to almost NEVER generate leaders, even in times of heavy war. This game, as the Russians, I've generated 5:

1. Build Army

of course, I built the HE...

2. Move Palace to Trondheim
3. Build Copernicus' Obs. (just to use the leader)
4. Move Palace to Tours
5. Build new Army

I'm well used to rushing the US, ToE, Hoover, etc., and I may still during this game. After all, there's not much continent left, and I don't think I'm leaving mine.

I would have to say that I intend to explore Catt's theory more in my next game (as the Japanese). I definitely left England/Scandanavia, which was seriously underdeveloped, as a solid area with at least temples, libraries, and defense in every city, WITHOUT SPENDING A DIME. Now this area is worth defending and can eventually, of its own merit, grow.

With my two core areas already well-developed, I'm now free to "choose my destiny": ride it out to a cultural victory? Space race? Buttress myself to crush the technological backwards but still nasty Celts?

I'm looking forward to it. But I must admit, Luck played it part in bringing me the first GL back in the ancient/medival war against Germany. If it hadn't been for that ONE BATTLE, who knows where I would be today?

[Arrian]

But I must admit, Luck played it part in bringing me the first GL back in the ancient/medival war against Germany. If it hadn't been for that ONE BATTLE, who knows where I would be today?

Luck is huge. Last night, during online discussions with my team in the PTW Demo game (it was our turn, and we're at war, so there was a fair amount of discussion), I fired up a new game.

Standard, Continents, 70%, Normal, Cold, 3 billion, Monarch. I chose... France. That does stack the deck in my favor, given the settings. I got myself a good starting spot (river, cow, some silk). I played for a bit, posted for a bit... I wasn't necessarily going to play the game out. But I was doing well. I was outresearching & outgrowing the AI comfortably. I attacked my closest neighbor, the Iroquois with swordsmen.

Two events took place during that war that convinced me that this is a game to play out:

1) 2 turns before I took it, Salamanca finished the Pyramids.
2) My one and only elite swordsman, upon winning his 2nd battle as an elite, generated a great leader (wiping out the Iroquois in the process).

I also built the Lighthouse and managed to find everyone else, and have a healthy tech & power lead going. My FP, roughly centered on my continent, is due for completion in 4 turns. My last remaining neighbor, Spain, is a joke.

So I have several options open to me, all of which are likely to lead to a comfortable victory:

1) build an army, invade Spain, build HE. Build up for invasion of one of the overseas civs (I'm thinking Arabia).

2) Hold leader, invade Spain, buildup to invade overseas, bring leader for palace move.

3) Rush a wonder.

Ah, decisions, decisions.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Ay di mi. This is OT, but when did you start building the swordsmen? Did you bother with a temple or library first or did you just get ready for war?

[Arrian]

Yahweh,

Paris built 4 warriors & a granary right off the bat. One other piece of luck I failed to mention: the second hut I popped gave me a settler. Granted, I built a so-so city with that settler, but that so-so city ended up building the Great Lighthouse.

Anyway, I built libraries in Paris & my #2 city, along with barracks in several cities (not Paris for a while, it pumped settlers/workers for a bit) and then built spearmen and then a bunch of warriors. Connect iron, upgrade warriors, kill. Meanwhile, I built temples, markets, courthouses, etc.

I've just hit the middle ages (feudalism done, monotheism in the works) and noone else has LITERATURE! Some of them are on the cusp of the M.A., but - and I've seen the AI do this before - they seem to be ignoring Lit. I was building the GL, but have switched it to Sun Tzu, and started the GL elsewhere... which may become Sistine or Leos. The GL is likely to be mostly worthless in this game.

-Arrian

[Catt]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
Don't Hesitate to Move Your Palace with GLs

I just wanted to note the last two games in a row I've moved my palace using a GL, for the first (2) times. In my current game, as Russia, I've done it twice.

If you can generate the necessary GL, I highly recommend moving your palace to your newly conquered lands as often as possible! A wonderful tactic!

I came pretty late to the benefits of place mobility, also (many months of playing before it hit me as a powerful tactic. It is particularly powerful towards the end of the Middle Ages and into the Industrial Ages when the flood of wonders has receded and the few wonders avaialble can often be had through effective pre-building. At that point, leaders mean army or rushed-building, and a rushed palace can do wonders for an empire.

Ater relocating the palace, getting courthouses, markets, factories and police stations up quickly in the surrounding area means that you can relocate the palace again quite quickly.

As Arrian mentioned, HERE is an older thread where there was a lot of discussion regarding palace movement.

Catt

[badams52]

In regards to palace movement, you also need to be careful that you're not moving it in a way that will sacrifice production or to an area where your new core will be weaker.

I can remember one game, I believe it was AU 201, where I had most of the cities on my home continent maxed out in terms of fighting corruption (WLTKD, courthouse, police stations) and I decided I wanted to move my palace from the south to the north.

Often when I move the palace, I notice an increase in GPT and science production which is often because I have the FP & Palace somewhat close to each other since I'm planning a palace move later. But this time, I had moved my palace once, so when I moved it a second time, my gpt and science output dropped.

I guess my FP & Palace placement were already quite ideal

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Arrian
I think it was Catt who posted a thread about multiple palace moves and how you could use it to build up areas of your empire sequentially, to the point where once you moved the palace away, an area would remain relatively productive because you had the chance to build courthouses, markets, etc. while the Palace was in the vicinity.

Also remember the culture flipping value of Palace moves... both on defense and offense.

I think I;ve moved my Palace three times in AU 207.

[Theseus]

Good job, Yahweh!!

Don;t be so self-deprecating... you are on top of a lot of the smartest tactics / strategies out there. Believe me, as Catt said above, it takes a loooong time to figure all this out. I'm still learning... the PTWDG has been great for me. And taking on a huge map for AU207 has been very educational too.

As I've said before, warmongering is the easiest way to win. It's in learning all these other subtleties that mastery lies.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Well, thanks for the support Theseus... I'm currently learning the subtleties OF warmongering. I'll move on the other subtleties later, on Monarch or Emperor.

I must note that moving my palace twice as the Russians gave me a decisive lead, but still, without a commercial trait, many of my courthoused/police stationed/celebrating cities at the end of the game (early modern era cultural victory) STILL lost half their damn production to corruption, and a couple of islands sporting 5 size-6 cities were almost worthless.

It pays to play as commercial, doesn't it? (rhetorical question)