Skorzeny's Commandos

[caralampio]

I imagine that this has been discussed before, but since I only recently figured it out, I'm posting it here. It's about the Explorer, which I have not found very useful in its intended role (exploring) since by the time it becomes available I've already discovered most of the world.
This unit can't attack or defend, but it has this little sword and it can "pillage". You can send a lot of explorers into the country of an enemy you plan to invade and place them on key locations--strategic resources, roads connecting the frontline cities with the rest of the enemy's kingdom, roads connecting with neighbors that might try to help him, etc. Usually AI opponents don't complain too much about these units' presence, or you can use right of passage (yeah yeah it's bad manners to declare war with right of passage in effect, but AI players do it all the time). On the turn you declare war, all the commandos pillage their locations, isolating the front and taking away their resources.
Most of the valiant guerrillas will die in the first turn, however if they are many the enemy can't take care of all of them and they can cause further mischief in the next turn. Also, before or after pillaging they can move three spaces, so they might try to move into some roadless haven like a mountain massif, desert or jungle (in true guerrilla fashion) and escape retaliation.
Explorers can help an offensive much like Otto Skorzeny's commandos did (well, tried) during the battle of the Bulge in WW2.

[Catt]

I agree. The "explorer" is a misnomer for this unit. I actually think it would be used more widely by Civ players if it were unchanged, but renamed the "saboteur." Mind you, I only actually use them once in every ten or so games, but I almost always build either a pair or two pairs of them in every game -- the gpt upkeep cost is often wasted; but, in those games where a key source of saltpeter, rubber, or oil lies 5 tiles into enemy territory, a pair of explorers . . . I mean saboteurs . . . can land a very powerful blow. Their ability to stay in enemy territory and observe during peacetime, well past the first "Your troops near Rome are annoying. Remove them!" warning, is just a nice little bonus that occasionally comes in handy.

Catt

[badams52]

hmmm, I do see the usefulness of saboteurs, but when I'm denying resources, I prefer the cavalry army approach. Moves fast, and the AI will leave it alone till he has tanks.

[Catt]

Originally posted by badams52
hmmm, I do see the usefulness of saboteurs, but when I'm denying resources, I prefer the cavalry army approach. Moves fast, and the AI will leave it alone till he has tanks.

But you need a cavalry army (and thus a leader or military academy generated army), and even the cav army can't move 5 tiles into enemy territory, whatever the terrain, and still pillage the tile, all in one turn .

Catt

[badams52]

sure, the saboteur is faster, but he can't hold his ground. Actually, I think the best way is the combination attack, send in the sabateur to destroy the resources, then back him up with the cavalry army knowing full well that resource won't be hooked up while you're defending it. Yeah that's it! Too bad I no longer play civ 3.

BTW Catt, you're letting this peace thing go to your head. Warmongering & UP will usually net me an army for HE sometime in the ancient era.

[Catt]

Originally posted by badams52
Yeah that's it! Too bad I no longer play civ 3.

You realize of course that you should just break down and play a few games, right? You could be using this 'Poly surfing time to play -- your civ addiction has only morphed into a "Civ discussion" addiction . I myself am perfectly willing to admit to both a Civ and a 'Poly addiction. After all, nobody's perfect.

BTW Catt, you're letting this peace thing go to your head. Warmongering & UP will usually net me an army for HE sometime in the ancient era.

But you still need an additional leader or a 100 shield unit (army) after the XX shield academy is built . . . that is unless you're keeping an ancient-era, leader-created army empty for future cavalry use . Nay, nay, sir -- don't discount the power of peace nor the shield-cost of army units -- the honorable explorer . . . er, saboteur . . . is a powerful investment. Long live the saboteur!



[Even if you don't break down and play, please stick around in the forums ]

[badams52]

Originally posted by Catt
You realize of course that you should just break down and play a few games, right? You could be using this 'Poly surfing time to play -- your civ addiction has only morphed into a "Civ discussion" addiction

I have a feeling that my poly surfing time...er addiction is about to be downgraded a bit. RCT is looking mighty good recently and I'm about to finish up this web project and applications that I've been putting off.

But you still need an additional leader or a 100 shield unit (army) after the XX shield academy is built . . . that is unless you're keeping an ancient-era, leader-created army empty for future cavalry use . Nay, nay, sir -- don't discount the power of peace nor the shield-cost of army units -- the honorable explorer . . . er, saboteur . . . is a powerful investment. Long live the saboteur!

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of the shield implications for army building, but often I have gotten the super city, IW city near FP or Palace, where the MA is built. Armies in 4-5 turns

[Even if you don't break down and play, please stick around in the forums ]

Don't worry Catt; as a fellow Californian (but transplanted in North Carolina for another few months) I won't disreguard my duty of handing advice and lending a word to interesting discussions about the finer points of civ strategy. And on that note, maybe we should give caralampio his thread back.

[Tattila the Hun]

Too bad they can't kidnap Hammurabi for me...

(read "The Eagle has landed" to understand...)

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

On a related, but not entirely "on", topic, I wish that the map generator placed cultures close together, esp. the Europeans... this would represent "real life" a lot better and make the "colonization" phase of the game... well, make it happen PERIOD. That would give use to Explorers, whose stats I feel are "realistic". It's just that, er, well, the Iroquois were never really THAT powerful in real life... the Americans didn't even, um, START in America...

[Master Zen]

Explorers are much better than Cavs at sabotaging if only becuase the enemy will surely have an effective counterattack waiting to take out your cavs (which at 3 defense ain't much). Explorers, on the other hand, are expendable.

Yahweh:

you could add culturaly-linked start positions. When this is on you'll usually have say, Germany Russia and France as neighbors.

As for colonization well, I think Civ3 is a poor game to model that precisely. There should be perhaps an incentive not to conquer a city completely

[badams52]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Explorers are much better than Cavs at sabotaging if only becuase the enemy will surely have an effective counterattack waiting to take out your cavs (which at 3 defense ain't much). Explorers, on the other hand, are expendable.

Which is why the cav army. 3 cav's in an army and the AI will only attack it with tanks. If you're up to tanks, then use a tank army...etc.

[Master Zen]

yes but a cav army can only pillage one tile per turn, whereas an equivalent swarm of scouts will pillage like madmen, sure, some will be taken out but its helluva more bang for the buck.

[badams52]

That's fine if you want to pillage everything, but while I'm taking cities, I like to leave the improvements alone so my workers will have less to do once they arrive. Except for the resources which I may pillage.

And you may have noticed from what I said earlier, the 2 pronged attack is king. Use explorers to pillage, reinforce with armies.

[Dominae]

If the battles are Cavalry against Musketmen, there is really no need for Explorers; you should roll over any opposition. But if you're already in the Industrial age and Cavalry are less potent due to the presence of Riflemen and Railroads, Explorers become quite useful. In this second case you'll want to cripple your opponent instead of doing a head-on Cavalry assault (assuming you do not have a huge production advantage, where you can afford to lose many Cavalry at every turn). So pillaging, and therefore Explorers, are very good. Conveniently, at around this time you should have enough Workers with nothing to do that the pillaged tile improvements get rebuilt rather quickly. If the war progresses into Infantry and Artillery, you're still better off using Explorers for pillaging, as Cavalry are best reserved for getting that last HP off of bombarded units, and counter-attacks.


Dominae

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by badams52

And you may have noticed from what I said earlier, the 2 pronged attack is king. Use explorers to pillage, reinforce with armies.

Instead of wasting your armies protecting pillagers you can have those armies with defensive units used to protect your massive artillery stacks. I would think it more useful for that role, after all it's not like they are easy to make.