The Internet - Key to Domination?

[nbarclay]

One of the great perennial problems trying to secure a domination victory is getting your civ's cultural borders to expand enough. While playing AU 203, I accidentally stumbled across a solution to that problem that never occurred to me.

The Internet, a new wonder in PtW, gives a research lab in every city on the continent it is built on. The fascinating thing is that each of those research labs is a generator of culture. So if you build the Internet on a continent you are trying to conquer, every city you take on that continent starts generating two culture per turn (1 in mobilization) the moment you capture it. You don't have to do anything! No investing gold in rush building, no pop rushing, just sit back and watch the culture accumulate until it (hopefully) gives you enough tiles for victory. (Or if you need the borders in some cities to expand more than once, it gives you a head start in addition to whatever you build yourself.)

Nathan

[DaveMcW]

Computers/Internet is not the key to domination, Modern Armor is. But it is a nice wonder for lazy people, which is probably why your game lasted into the modern ages anyway.

[nbarclay]

Actually, it lasted into the modern era because the special rules for that "class" do not permit offensive warfare except under a communist government. I would probably have made it into the modern era in any event, but the AIs would have been toast had I been permitted to unleash my panzers the moment I got them without wrecking my ability to continue my research in the process. (Not to mention the fact that my first panzer victory put me in a GA, and I wasn't about to waste a third of that in anarchy!)

[HolyWarrior]

What is so strange about adding the Internet to PTW is that it has the same effect as the SETI wonder in Civ1--research labs in all cities. In the Civ2 notes, Sid writes how SETI was toned down in Civ2 because it was too powerful and a case of 'the rich getting richer'. So why now in Civ3? And culture too, on top of that!

[yxhuvud]

In any way, I think you are correct in your statement that the internet is a key to domination.

Not necessary the wonder though, rather the real internet, I know for a fact that I didn't have much of a chance at emperor when I found this place, and now have won at deity a few times.

[Mazarin]

well the internet isn't the key to domination...it does make domination faster to achieve, but in modern era i'm usually able to rush-buy a couple of temples every turn, so there's no big difference. and I don't think the internet is as powerfull as the pyramids or hoover...research labs are usually built in 2-6 turns in the core (which actually is the only place they're worth building anyway)...thats nothing compared to the 5-12 turns powerplants would take or the double growth provided by Pyramids.

[Centauri18]

The Internet granting Research Labs makes more sense that SETI giving you research labs.

[Robber Baron]

Nathan: great tip! Here's what you do with one of those leaders that come when they are a dime a dozen, and the game is dragging on because none of your opponents will ever be able to muster a serious threat, yet you're forced to play through (frankly) tiresome turns managing a huge empire and a vast army because you want the victory.

[laissez-faire]

Originally posted by HolyWarrior
What is so strange about adding the Internet to PTW is that it has the same effect as the SETI wonder in Civ1--research labs in all cities. In the Civ2 notes, Sid writes how SETI was toned down in Civ2 because it was too powerful and a case of 'the rich getting richer'. So why now in Civ3?

I can think of two refutes:

1 :: When Civ I came out the Internet was in its infant stages, its powerful impact on (scientific) society not yet felt; and

2 :: It's fantastic to see the game maintain its realism; and the-rich-getting-richer phenomenon is certainly adherent to that reality--sad to say. But on the bright side, if you can bring down the rich 'totalitarian,' then I raise my mash to you!

[nbarclay]

Under Civ 3's default rules, you have to research a tech that's not on the space race path to build the Internet, and even if you have a leader waiting when you're ready, you won't get research labs in most of your core cities any faster than you could build them from scratch. With a big, wealthy civ that can already do four-turn modern research (at least once the core labs go online), Miniaturization and the Internet are a wasteful detour, unless maybe you need the research labs and you're too busy fighting a war to build them from scratch.

Of course under the Apolyton University Mod rules, Miniaturization does have to be researched on the way to the space race, so the Internet has a great deal of value if you have a leader available to rush it. But without a leader handy (or expected), I'd generally want to build research labs in my core cities anyhow rather than wait until the Internet can be completed.

Nathan

[joncnunn]

I play Classic Civ III on the Emperor level with Tiny Maps and I don't consider Miniaturization a detour at all for the Space Race, but part of boosting production of most of my cities to support the space race, and routinely reserach Computers and Miniaturization as my first two modern techs.

In my current game, I now have only seven cities which are NOT coastal. (These is much higher than normal; I have played a game on this size map where only two of my cities weren't coastal.)

In this game though, I think I'm going to win via domination instead; the dumb Zulu made the mistake of declaring war on me again the turn I finished researching Enviormenaltism and they are still needing Electronics & Steel with me already in possesion of about 63% of the landmass (mostly via peaceful expansion, but some of it via a successful counter attack of the Zulus previously) and on my current turn just lost all their Infentry & Calvary that were inside my territory and 1 city that I razed for overlapping into my existing cities CR which added several tiles to my territory. I also aquired a GL but have nothing I can use him for several turns (I was already at the army limit and don't feel like moving my Palace considering where my FP is.)

The Zulu are scheldued to lose a second city next turn, which I plan to keep. That will probably be enough for a domination victory when it expands.

[Catt]

Re: The Internet - Key to Domination?

Originally posted by nbarclay
The Internet, a new wonder in PtW, gives a research lab in every city on the continent it is built on. The fascinating thing is that each of those research labs is a generator of culture. So if you build the Internet on a continent you are trying to conquer, every city you take on that continent starts generating two culture per turn (1 in mobilization) the moment you capture it. You don't have to do anything! No investing gold in rush building, no pop rushing, just sit back and watch the culture accumulate until it (hopefully) gives you enough tiles for victory. (Or if you need the borders in some cities to expand more than once, it gives you a head start in addition to whatever you build yourself.)

I'm actually not convinced that the culture from the free RL's was a conscious design decision. True, there are no other "improvement in every city" wonders that offer culture-producing improvements, and no other such wonders that offer the benefits without the improvement prerequisites in place (i.e., Hoover gives plants, but the effects apply only if a factory is built -- the Internet offers a 50% research boost even in cities without a library and offers the 2 culture per-turn!) -- so maybe it was entirely conscious; but for some reason it just strikes me as wrong. Wonders go to the leader or one of many leaders. The internet offers: (1) greater technological lead; (2) big culture boost (principally helpfully on borders, particularly borders that are in motion ); and (3) a decent savings on maintenence costs. It just goes against some other desgin decisions that limit the relative advantage of holding a leadership position.

In those games that make it to the modern era, the Internet is, IMHO, a very powerful wonder. It should cut research time by 1 turn at least (assuming you're not cruising at a 4-turn pace); if you're at a 4 - 8 turn research pace, it is easy to delay RLs in most cities and wait for the Internet with a pre-build ready; it shames its neighborly wonder SETI in terms of utility; and if you're on a mission of domination or conquest, it significantly alleviates the cost of reaching the goal -- expanding borders, at a time when much of the world is RR'd, means both land and productivity. The thing's a killer. When playing standard rules, I've only once deviated from an approach of securing the Internet right after Computers -- and then only because I was on an archipelago and pretty sure that the next UN vote would bring victory . I suppose I might bypass the tech in a very, very tight tech race towards a space race, but that's a pretty rare happenstance, IMHO.

Catt

[Theseus]

What'd you just say?

Hoover only kicks in when a factory is in place?

Damn... you learn something new every day.