The underrated power of the Immortal/Catapult/Spearman stack: a statistical analysis

[DaveMcW]

I don't mind casualties while taking enemy towns. By the time my invasion is ready I am producing at least 30 shields per turn, probably closer to 60. So I can afford to lose 1-2 units per turn.

[nbarclay]

A proper analysis comparing the merits of the units must be dynamic, not just static. The longer a war lasts, the more troops the enemy will build. Thus, even if the mixed force described here suffers fewer casualties per enemy unit encountered, it may still suffer more casualties overall in the course of the war. Also, a longer war may result in more rush building by the AI, and hence greater happiness problems in captured cities if you capture rather than razing. And finally, immortals will spend more time in enemy territory to conquer the same amount of land. To the extent that having troops in enemy territory affects war weariness, immortals would produce a greater war weariness problem under Republic than MWs.

Edit: not that the analysis isn't some pretty nice work as far as it goes.

Nathan

[yxhuvud]

nb:

A few points:

That the opponent will get more troops while the war lasts is seldom a problem. If you are doing oscilating wars, there isn't any problems at all, since the wars very seldom lasts for more than a few turns, at least they don't for me. Also, while it is true that the oponent get mer troops while the war is going on, so do you. And if it is you that are on the offensive, then if you had built enough troops prior to the war, you should be able to at least hurt their production ability somewhat, making for a better situation for you.

This should hold if you are fighting oscilating war against any civ, or regular warring agaisnt a same sized civ. the reason it holds for oscilating war for bigger as well is that if you build enough troops, you should be able to hurt them enough for them to make peace before the bulk of their reinforcement troops arrive, regardless of wheather you use one or two move units.

And if you are having trouble with war weariness when using immortals, then you are doing something wrong, probably holding off the attack way too long, or using republic, whihc is seldom worthwhile if you are playing the persians and have iron

I am having my best shot so far at deity (tiny, pangaea) with the persians at the moment. I started with only the english as neighbour, but with the chinese being close on the other side of them. They must have had an early war, since when I attacked the english in the 1300's BC tehy had only two spears a city and no other troops. Razed london, which had *3* wonders 1280BC.

Presently I have like one city left of the english to take, and a few of the americans as well. I am leading the power league and I have the most land area. However, I am very frightened of the japanese, since I am far behind in tech still in the ancient age, and I am afraid they have samurais, which could turn the game into a very ugly one should they chose to attack. Hopefully I will be able to clear the last other civs and be able to set up a killing grounds close to a chokepoint before that happens, but it is a war against time.

[Bamspeedy]

Sure, I'd love the immortals on tiny maps. But on larger maps, the 1-move units are next to worthless if you want to wage any sort of quick warfare. And they don't upgrade to anything.

[Theseus]

"Slow warfare" has its advantages though... more opportunities for GLs.

[Arrian]

Theseus,

Ah! But you can execute "slow warfare" even more effectively with fast-movers! Slow warfare is then a choice to suit your wants/needs, rather than a condition forced upon you because your troops are slow.

-Arrian

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Catt
But I think this is one of those comparisons (immortals+catapults+spears vs. MWs) that is more relevant when taking into account non-mathematical variables: who is the target? what is the terrain like? what map features are prominent? etc.

Add to that the relative strengths of the Civs involved. The Combined Arms Stack is stronger, but slower. If you are significantly behind your enemy in production, they might be able to take out your units faster than you can make them. When the AI is competitive, the Combined Arms Stack can take the heat and still carry the attack forward.

Of course, if you are playing Iroquois, you would normally build at least some Mounted Warriors to support your Combined Arms Stack by skirmishing with counterattacking units, such as Archers and Horsemen caught in the open.

[Brizey]

I see that a few of you have downloaded my calculator. Any feedback, in particular contructive criticism?