Civ-Specific Strategy: Babylonians

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Stuie
Definitely not a Spearmen replacement though since you lose the upgrade path. Rely exclusively on Bowmen for offense and defense, and you'll find yourself building an entire new defense force from the ground up when you get to the Middle Ages.

Very good point, I had not thought of that. This is probably something I would have figured out the hard way, if I had begun my game with the Babs by now.


Dominae

[Aeson]

It's not too hard to get a culture lead with the Babs even on Deity, and if you research Literacy yourself you can take a rather large lead at that point. It helps balance out the fact that a conquest will take a bit longer to build up to. GOTM14 was Deity/Babs, and I had 2x the culture of any of the AI's basically from the get go. My first build in every city but the Capitol was a Temple. It makes holding onto captured cities much easier, effectively giving you more units as they don't have to be posted to retake flips.

I dislike using Bowmen. Warriors to upgrade to Swordsmen are more effective, quicker to build and won't waste your GA. Depending on terrain (lots of 1 shield production tiles) I do consider using a Bowman to trigger a GA early on Deity though. Otherwise just wait until Monarchy/Republic is switched to.

City size is one area I play the Babs differently than most anyone else. Because of the early Temple builds pop stays a bit higher on average, and so I keep most cities producing Settlers at pop 5 instead of pop 3. It helps to build the 40 shield improvements (Barracks, Library) quickly. Any civ can be played this way, but because of both cheap Temples and Libraries, I feel obligated to build both of them. With other civs I just pass on culture until the Middle Ages.

After the first Swordsman/Horseman war, Cultural victory is by far the easiest. You can backfill ICS to get an extremely early 100k. Otherwise the basic Knight upgrade from Chariots/Horsemen to continue the conquest.

[joncnunn]

I only have a couple of things unique to playing the Babs:

1. As the REX is ending, as Babs I'll build a couple of Bow Men instead of Spear Men.

2. I take full advantage of the cheap temples & libaries playing the Babs.

[Aeson]

Just a culture graph from a babs/deity game (2 other Religious civs, one Scientific). As you can see I wasn't really focusing on culture that much either. By the midway point I was selling off all my improvements.

Through the whole game, I had 2 cities flip to me, 1 size 12 city flipped back a few turns after being conquered (it was down to size 6 by then), but was able to keep all the rest. With an awe inspiring culture, you can normally quell all resistance in a city on the first turn (when there is no chance for a flip), move your armies out, rush a Settler, and the city should keep from flipping. It works like a poor man's (actually you need to be rich to rush all those Settlers) recycling blitz.

[DaveMcW]

That looks a lot like my culture graph, but after the early temple jump I flattened out to culture parity. Did you use fringe ICS after the first Persian war?

[Aeson]

Nope, just lots of Libraries and Cathedrals. I was focusing on military at the time too.

[DaveMcW]

Hmmm, I didn't get Literature until I traded Monothiesm. I guess the delayed libraries cost me.

[Konquest02]

My biggest problem while playing the Babs is that I tend to overbuild. I focus too much on those cheap improvements and slack too much my military. The result is some quite intense AAB (Ancient Age Bullying), especially on higher levels. Guess it's practice time again for me!

--Kon--

[Dominae]

Well, I must admit that my first attempt to make Bowmen "work" left a bad taste in mouth.

Bowmen = Bleh

This certainly has something to do with the terrain available to me: when I reached about 5 cities, I was out-expanding the AI, even with liberal pop-rushing of Temples. Things were looking a little too good, and so a rush of my neighbor with Bowmen wouldn't of been any use.

Still, I plan to start another game and try out the little suckers. I'm beginning to see that in SP they're no more than average. In MP, I'm still not sure (what do you do if three Bowmen arrive at your doorstep when you're still expanding?).


Dominae

[DaveMcW]

Originally posted by Dominae
What do you do if three Bowmen arrive at your doorstep when you're still expanding?).

Pop rush a spearman or two and send all extra units to defend the town in danger.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
Pop rush a spearman or two and send all extra units to defend the town in danger.

Yup, then they start destroying your improvements.


Dominae

[Arrian]

I can see bowmen being a pain in MP, but not much more so than an acher/spearman stack. The only difference is that instead of building 3 archers and 2 spearmen, your opponent can build 5 bowmen and have the ability to attack or defend with any of them. Not a huge advantage, IMO.

Maybe I will find out I'm wrong: I'm in a PBEM game and I'm the Babs.

-Arrian

[Zero]

Originally posted by Stuie


Definitely not a Spearmen replacement though since you lose the upgrade path. Rely exclusively on Bowmen for offense and defense, and you'll find yourself building an entire new defense force from the ground up when you get to the Middle Ages.

its the same problem i face when using japanese since i replace pikemen with samurai as defense role. But I have reserve pikemen to upgrade to riflemen later...

[Egbert]

Originally posted by Dominae
Well, I must admit that my first attempt to make Bowmen "work" left a bad taste in mouth.

Bowmen = Bleh

(what do you do if three Bowmen arrive at your doorstep when you're still expanding?).

Dominae

I think those Babylonian Bowmen can be marvellous. I have been playing Regent games on tiny 80% water maps with 16 civs. The fighting usually starts immediately even before iron working or horses. In my current game I was attacked by three neighbours before I could even start building a settler (because I was at the intersection point on a small "T" shaped island with three other civs). The Bab Bowmans' offensive and defensive capabilities are superlative at such an early stage. Fighting off the three neighbours was no problem with the Bowmen, without the bowmen I am sure I would have lost. BTW I welcomed the Golden Age even though I only had one 3 point city because that enable me to produce Bowmen fast enough to capture a city, destroy a city, and to safely found two cities while facing three opponents which made mine the biggest civ. I could then annex my Russian neighbours and their lovely real estate in the next war shortly afterwards. I have had other such games with the Bowmen proving invaluable.

In a tiny crowded map they are the perhaps the most useful unit in the game (but build barracks for them). OTH In a normal (ie uncrowded)game they may be worse than useless because better units should be available by the time the fighting starts not to mention they may trigger a golden age too soon.

[Dominae]

peterfharris, I think you've nailed it: Bowmen are best when neighbors are very very close. My feelings that Bowmen should be good in MP stem from the fact that, in my mind, MP games are decided in early conflict. Given that many MP games are played on small maps due to time constraints (not to mention boredom avoidance), I do not think my impression is far off. Against the AI it is simply too difficult to rush with Bowmen on Monarch level and above because of all the unit bonuses; against a human player, Bowmen must be a dream (or a nightmare, depending on which side you're on).

Anyone had any success with Bowmen in MP yet?


Dominae