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  • Important changes in game behavior in PtW

    This thread is about the little changes in the behavior of the game, that need a different strategical approach than in the standard Civ3. I have seen 3 of them so far, but I think there are more for sure.

    Barbarian tactics
    Barbarians have gotten a real pain in the butt. They don't attack the nearest target anymore, sometimes they even flee from your unit in the fog of war. They keep roaming around your empire and, since they are all-seeing and all-knowing, will for sure target your undefended settler, worker or city in a moment, when it pleases you the least. They keep you on your toes. Making elite Spearmen by placing regulars on a mountain near a barbarian hut does not longer work, because the barbarians avoid to attack below a certain probability to win. If they succeed to ransack a city, they steal insane amounts of money. Consequence: You need more units roaming around your empire to keep it safe from Barbarians. The worst, what can happen, is a massive uprising with raging barbarians. 24 horsemen with improved tactics can ruin you completely and kill all your settlers and workers.

    Ability to capture a non-expanded size-1 city
    This is the most important change I encountered so far. I did not make any research on this matter, but I suppose, that a size-1 city survives a capture, if there is any culture at all, even though it doesn't suffice to expand the city's borders. This makes captial chasing easier and vastly increases the efficiency of early wars, namely Warrior and Archer rushes.

    Cities popping from huts
    I consider this to be a quite annoying change. I still want to have control, where I want to plopp a city and where not. O well, it's still possible to disband a city by building a Settler with no food surplus, but it leaves an ugly "trash dump" tile, which lasts till you mine or irrigate the tile. There's really nothing one can do against it, maybe praying more will help .

    Stuff from the discussion follows:

    To buy workers is very expensive now
    Nuff said. Arrians worker buying strategy is no longer affordable.

    The AI actively trades contacts
    Although version 1.04f was buggy and allowed the AI to trade contacts even before Writing, the fact remains, that the AI actively trades contacts now, which it (at least for me) never did in Civ3. This can give the human player some advantage, because he can save a lot of money to buy all contacts himself, or at least save some time for scouting.

    The AI puts a bigger focus on building wonders
    Master Marcus noticed, that the AI is quite a GW addict now, well it was already in vanilla Civ III, but even more with PtW. It will build relentlessly any available GW now, and that combined with its improved scientific priority, that comes at the expense of its early expansion ( slighty, but I'm sure so far ). That's good for the builder player, but beware it's easy now to fall more behind the AI on tech ( Monarch+ ). Perhaps the "behavioral" change that has the most impact on gameplay, especially on larger maps played 'til modern era.

    The AI makes more MPPs
    So it's easier to be involved in an industrial/modern world war. Contributed by Master Marcus, I couldn't confirm that yet.

    The AI upgrades his units more rapidly
    When reaching replaceable parts for example, the turn after he has already MULTIPLE infantry defenders in every city. In vanilla Civ III the AI - even the strongest - was keeping its obsolete units much longer.

    Have you seen more of these "little important changes"?

  • #2
    I haven't had as much playtime as I'd like, but I nonetheless suspect something has been done to the AI tech acquisition rate -- either better researching, more varied researching among AI's with a greater propensity to trade, or simply a greater impetus to trade. Don't know what it is, but it sure seems to me that I fall behind further and faster under PTW than I did under vanilla Civ 3.

    Nonetheless, since this is purely anecdotal and I've played far too few games to constitute an adequate sample, I won't follow your example and list this "change" in boldface.

    Catt

    Comment


    • #3
      Speaking of tech, has anyone noticed extortion is harder? I haven't moved up a level since PTW came out, so I don't think it's difficulty-based aggression. The AI just seems more stingy than before, and I can definitely say from experience that they get VERY uppity when your reputation starts to drop.

      There's the worker sales thing, of course. We know about that. Maybe there was more?

      Comment


      • #4
        I just downloaded the 1.14 patch and will install PTW tonight. I'll keep my eyes open

        -Arrian
        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Arrian
          I just downloaded the 1.14 patch and will install PTW tonight. I'll keep my eyes open

          -Arrian
          1.14? For PTW??

          Comment


          • #6
            statusperfect: yes.

            Nakar Gabab: Good job , I forgot about the increased cost for workers.

            Also, Arrian reminded me (in the Scouting thread) about the AI trading contacts now. I hope it still does in 1.14f, since it was buggy in 1.04f.

            I will try to keep the 1st post edited. Thanks for contributions.

            Comment


            • #7
              Sir Ralph and all, I agree on most of what's been said; but as for the workers, although the AI sell them at a much higher price in PtW, I actually can still purchase a few ( 100-110 gold+World map instead of 30-40 gold ) especially when I play a non-industrious civ- it's still quite "affordable" and useful.

              - I noticed also that the AI is quite a GW addict now, well it was already in vanilla Civ III, but even more with PtW. It will build relentlessly any available GW now, and that combined with its improved scientific priority, that comes at the expense of its early expansion ( slighty, but I'm sure so far ). That's good for the builder player, but beware it's easy now to fall more behind the AI on tech ( Monarch+ ). Perhaps the "behavioral" change that has the most impact on gameplay, especially on larger maps played 'til modern era.

              - The AI makes more MPPs, so it's easier to be involved in an industrial/modern world war.

              - The AI upgrades his units more rapidly, when reaching replaceable parts for example, the turn after he has already MULTIPLE infantry defenders in every city ( to name the Ottomans in my last game ). In vanilla Civ III, it seems to me the AI - even the strongest - was keeping his obsolete units much more longer unchecked and was waiting to build new ones. Now I scarcely see AI spearman units after mid-game, quite a noticeable difference I'm sure.

              - Among other things, it won't give you a tech unless you have a bigger lump sum ( x 3 ? next to previous versions ): generally not affordable, now I have to do more ( not all, but more ) tech advances on my own. It's more aggressive, but DOESN'T seem to build MORE units than before.........
              The art of mastering:"la Maîtrise des caprices du subconscient avant tout".

              Comment


              • #8
                The 114 patch fixes the trading comms without the prereq tech.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Important changes in game behavior in PtW

                  Originally posted by Sir Ralph
                  Ability to capture a non-expanded size-1 city
                  This is the most important change I encountered so far. I did not make any research on this matter, but I suppose, that a size-1 city survives a capture, if there is any culture at all, even though it doesn't suffice to expand the city's borders. This makes captial chasing easier and vastly increases the efficiency of early wars, namely Warrior and Archer rushes.
                  Wow. Not played any ptw yet but this must make a huge difference.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just looks minor to me.

                    All it means is that you don't have to wait 5 turns after the Temple completes to safely capture a size 1 city.
                    1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
                    Templar Science Minister
                    AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oops, misread the quote.

                      *backpedals*. Yeah, minor.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Catt
                        I haven't had as much playtime as I'd like, but I nonetheless suspect something has been done to the AI tech acquisition rate -- either better researching, more varied researching among AI's with a greater propensity to trade, or simply a greater impetus to trade. Don't know what it is, but it sure seems to me that I fall behind further and faster under PTW than I did under vanilla Civ 3.
                        I suspect this might be due to the bug where the AI traded contacts before Writing in 1.04f (among themselves), hence allowing tech trading to happen among more civs at an earlier date.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by joncnunn
                          Just looks minor to me.

                          All it means is that you don't have to wait 5 turns after the Temple completes to safely capture a size 1 city.
                          It is a major change, when using early capital chasing. In an early war in the beginning of the REX phase usually no temples are built, and you need to be very lucky to catch a city with more than size 1, because the AI instantly poprushes a defender or an archer if the city is likely to be attacked. The only building with culture is the palace, hence the capital is the only city to be taken. It gives 1 culture, so after taking the capital I had to wait it needs 10 turns till I could take the next one. I usually don't want to wait that long, because I want to make peace ASAP, so that I can suck this neighbor dry (money, techs, workers) and send my forces to attack the next neighbor.

                          Believe me, the difference is huge!

                          BTW, I can confirm it now, and here's a test game save. Just take St. Petersburg with the active Archer. You'll be able to take it, despite it's size 1 and not yet expanded. Russia respawns instantly, so I was able to extort all her respawn gifts for peace.

                          Look at it. Except the 4 techs Russia is ahead (I didn't care about trading myself, since it's only a test), it has only 7 gold. After it respawned, it has 118 gold and 2 workers more and parts gladly with it and the 4 techs for peace. So compared with Civ3 behavior I have 1 city more from this war. In that early game state this is a big difference.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I had an early game war a few months ago where I successfuly captured rather than raze a city that had been size 2 but was now size 1 that hadn't expanded culturlely.

                            I haven't gone place chasing in early game though. Difference in style, I prefer a series of wars that are each short to annex the enemy over a single long war.
                            1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
                            Templar Science Minister
                            AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by joncnunn
                              Difference in style, I prefer a series of wars that are each short to annex the enemy over a single long war.
                              So do I, and I'm pleased, that I can capture 2 cities now in 3-4 turns instead of 10-12 as it was before. See my point now?

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