Need some help on a bad start.

[ArmaGeddin]

Well, my latest game is going real bad. (sigh)

I'm stuck between a jungle to the south, a mountain range to the north and west, and a desert to the east. The moutains and the jungle are both vast, and there is a civ just over the desert from me sucking up all the good land over there. Im trying to get REX going dropping cities in at 2 spaces apart just to get enough of a base to fight my way out.

Things don't look so good though.......


I played through once and by the Middle Ages I was so far behind I bailed out and restarted again.

OK, I keep reading about how some of you masters win these bad start games with limited cities. In fact one guy keeps talking about a single city win.


Questions:

How do you keep up in tech when I have such a limited science base? (only 6 cities) Once I get past Education and I loose the GL I get behind fast. I dont have any tech to trade because of my low science, so how do I keep up?

[punkbass2000]

What level?

[punkbass2000]

Oh, World Size and civ are important too.

[Dominae]

Winning with bad starts involves a great deal of diplomacy and a greater deal of warfare. If you're stuck at 6 cities, you're going to need to do some conquest to obtain more land. When in such a weak position, make sure you sign alliances when declaring war. This will prevent the enemy civ from focusing all its military might against you.

Don't despair if you're technologically behind the AI, even if their units outmatch yours. The way the game is designed the underdogs can still compete in the power race. This is especially true with the new Medieval Infantry unit and upgrade path (althoug the Longbowmen are probably more important because they require no resources).

Oh, and concerning victories with just one city, most of them involve amazing starting locations. I doubt any player can win OCC games consistently with arbitrary starts.


Dominae

[vmxa1]

Two tiles apart, ouch. What level, what map size, what civ? Post a save for the 4000bc. Is it PTW?

[Killerdaffy]

Depending on world size, difficulty and availability of resources a very early archer/horseman/swordman rush might get you out of your confinement. If you are very lucky and get a leader in the process you could even move the center of your empire to one of the conquered capitals.

[ArmaGeddin]

Background:

Germans
Monarch level.
Standard map size.
Middle of the road age and climate.

I played Germans because I wanted to try out those tanks.

An Archer attack failed for me because I could not get my archers across the jungle or the mountains or the desert before the enemy had Swordsmen and could blunt my attack. I could not figure out a way to have enough workers to build the roads through the wasteland and still have enough production to build Archers and Spearmen for the attack. By the time I got there with my attacking force they whacked me with Swordsmen.

So I built up my 6 cities and went for the GL. I got it and then went for Monarchy and saved my money. Once I got to Monarchy I spent my cash on improvments on my cities and launched a Knight attack on the civ arcoss the desert from me. About that time almost everyone on the map declare war on me and I had to pull back and defend for many turns. I figure because I didn't have a large army I was seen as an easy target. Even those I had ROPs with and was polite with attacked me.

So I fought them off for a while and then I realized I was spending all my time fighting and gaining nothing and I quit out to restart. (sigh).

[jshelr]

You have a tough one on your hands. It's difficult to be on bad turf and far away from neighbors without horses. The second problem is as bad or worse than the first problem.

Sounds like you are being resourceful. Getting the GL was very good. If you had been a little more lucky on the diplomacy front, you could have been among the group of civs that were picking on the hapless lone loser. Note how that played a key role in the classic So Cold game. It's key, as noted above, if you are a little guy, to watch for an opportunity to join a war or to get alliances as soon as you are in one.

If there is one secret ingredient to a come from behind win it is patience. You need grovel and deal, to make a little progress constantly, until you are in position to go for the ultimate victory.

[joncnunn]

Well, the Jungle can be cleared into grassland. But since your not an industrious civ, you'll need a lot of workers to do so and it's probably easier to take over an oppoenents good land first.

Too me, it looks like the same turn you declared war on that AI, you should have contacted as many civs you can and pay them to join your war against that AI. Yes, this may cut down on the number of cities you get, but it will keep them from attacking you.

[ducki]

Also, you can defeat swordsmen with Archers, but you need some good terrain and numbers advantages.

Definitely get one of your enemy's neighbor's in on the attack, if possible.

How 'bout a screenshot or a SAV or both(many here don't have PtW and some are on Mac, stuck at 1.17, I think.)

Sure does sound tough, I'd love to see it.

[Arrian]

Damn, you tried the two things I could think of. I read your game settings post and immediately thought "archer rush." You tried that, and failed.

Then you tried a GL-powered buildup for a knight attack, which also backfired. All I can say is ouch.

If anyone is qualified to comment, however, it would be Aeson.

-Arrian

[Killerdaffy]

Originally posted by Arrian
Damn, you tried the two things I could think of. I read your game settings post and immediately thought "archer rush." You tried that, and failed.

Then you tried a GL-powered buildup for a knight attack, which also backfired. All I can say is ouch.

If anyone is qualified to comment, however, it would be Aeson.

-Arrian

After some time on 'Poly the instinctive reactions converge.

It sounds like a challenge, I'd also love to give it a try if you could post the savegame.

[ManicStarSeed]

Swordsman

Since you are a scientific civ, have you tried for swordsmen (1 tech away) and use them for the rush?

I would build some barracks first..

Mss

[Killerdaffy]

Re: Swordsman

Originally posted by ManicStarSeed
Since you are a scientific civ, have you tried for swordsmen (1 tech away) and use them for the rush?

I would build some barracks first..

Mss

Research Iron Working at 10% (or the minimum to get one beaker) and build lots of veteran Warriors. After 40 turns use the saved money to upgrade everything to Swordsmen and send them off - makes for a really nasty surprise for your neighbor.

[Arrian]

The real question is did he have iron?

If so, the vet warrior upgrade is a solid choice. If not, that's probably why he didn't try it.

-Arrian