OCC games for fun and, well...FUN!

[DaveMcW]

You're right Dominae, I have only been playing Pangea maps. I should have mentioned that.

[nbarclay]

Okay, here's the city I created. Remember, it's a scenario, not a save game.

Nathan

[jshelr]

Visited the States over the weekend and our house there has an older computer. Tried an OCC game. Have to say I loved it. I had no strategic or lux resources at all, all game. I did have lots of shielded grassland along rivers, however. T'was a great city. Should frame a picture, but I don't know how to do screenshots.

Learned quite a bit for one game about city management and science wonders, among other things. Being a nice guy seems to work.

OCC games are definitely to be recommended for new players in order to expose gaps in your knowledge and round off your understanding of what the game is all about.

[Dominae]

Next time I play a SP game, I'm going to try an OCC game with the Ottomans. I'll post a log here, just to remove some of the mystery from OCC...


Dominae

[Dominae]

As promised here is a log and the save of an OCC game I recently attempted. I say "attempted" because I eventually fell to the unexpectedly aggressive Japanese. However, had they not attacked me when they did, I'm sure this would have been a SS victory.

I played the Ottomans because I've now convinced that Industrious is the second-best OCC trait (behind, of course, Scientific). I also wanted to have an unfamiliar face staring at me whenever I opened the diplomacy window (Xerxes is just so smug when he's happy).

3950BC: Istanbul founded
3750BC: Warrior
3550BC: Warrior
3350BC: Worker
2750BC: Alphabet
1650BC: Writing
The Colossus
1575BC: Spearman
1525BC: Spearman
1175BC: Literature
1075BC: Pottery
610BC: Map Making
490BC: The Great Library
450BC: Galley
370BC: Galley
290BC: Contact the Japanese
270BC: Contact the Spanish
250BC: The Wheel
Warrior Code
Horseback Riding
Iron Working
Ceremonial Burial
Mysticism
Polytheism
Monarchy
Philosophy
Code of Laws
Construction
90BC: Contact the Chinese
50BC: Contact the Mongols
150AD: Sell Territory map to all other civs for ~3 gold
170AD: Currency
Engineering
Contact the Vikings
Trade (Vikings): World map, 145 gold for Mysticism
190AD: The Republic; begin revolution
Trade (Japanese): 9 gold per turn, 28 gold for Contact with Vikings
270AD: Switch governments to Republic
300AD: Feudalism
310AD: Trade (Japanese): 23 gold per turn, 43 gold for Engineering
Trade (Spanish): 14 gold per turn, 51 gold for Engineering
440AD: Monotheism
510AD: Invention
Trade (Japanese): 11 gold per turn, 9 gold for Gems
520AD: Trade (Chinese): 2 Workers for 215 gold
540AD: Leonardo's Workshop
600AD: Marketplace
620AD: Chivalry
660AD: Gunpowder
720AD: Trade (Japanese): 14 gold per turn, 96 gold for Ivory
730AD: Cathedral
740AD: Theology
920AD: Chemistry
940AD: Education
1010AD: Library
1090AD: Steal Astronomy from the Spanish for ~1000 gold
1150AD: Trade (Chinese): Banking for Metallurgy, 49 gold
1275AD: Copernicus's Observatory
Military Tradition
Trade (Spanish): Navigation, 11 gold per turn for Military Tradition
1340AD: Economics ***
1350AD: Trade (Mongols): Theory of Gravity, Printing Press, Furs for Economics
Trade (Chinese): Magnetism for Economics, 194 gold
Nationalism
1380AD: Newton's University
1395AD: Trade (Chinese): Democracy, Music Theory, 95 gold per turn for Nationalism
Trade (Mongols): 64 gold per turn for Nationalism
Trade (Vikings): 42 gold per turn, 109 gold for Nationalism
1430AD: Bank
1435AD: Medicine ***
1460AD: Trade (Mongols): 45 gold per turn, 56 gold for Medicine
Trade (Vikings): 33 gold per turn, 50 gold for Medicine
Trade (Japanese): Dyes, 25 gold per turn, 6 gold for Medicine
1480AD: Trade (Mongols): Steam Power for ~1650 gold
1505AD: Sanitation ***
Trade (Mongols): 84 gold per turn, 58 gold for Sanitation
Trade (Chinese): Spices, 29 gold per turn, 68 gold for Sanitation
1565AD: Trade (Mongols): Industrialization for 1640 gold
1570AD: Trade (Japanese): Coal for 10 gold per turn, 7 gold
1590AD: Factory
1605AD: Coal Plant
1620AD: Electricity ***
1690AD: Scientific Method ***
1695AD: Theory of Evolution
Atomic Theory ***
Electronics ***
1700AD: Japanese declare war; all is lost...


The *'s indicate techs that no other civ had yet discovered.

Of particular note in this game is the fact that I never entered a Golden Age! I missed out on the Hanging Gardens and never got to build the Hoover Dam, so the 'Industrious' half of my GA was always missing...


Dominae

[Dominae]

Here's a screenshot just after I completed Newton's University:

[vmxa1]

Interesting, I almost asked you if it was PTW, like a dummy until I saw it was Ottomans.

[Theseus]

Almost did the same ... post-PTW, I am less surprised the Japs whacked you.

[SanPellegrino]

what settings did you use?

btw, never saw japan that big, in my games they are usually wiped out early.

[Dominae]

The AI seems a little more aggressive in PTW, no? I was really really tempted to just reload a couple of turns earlier and appease the Japanese, but now that I think about it there's no way they would have "let me off the hook" until the SS was completed. Too bad.

Settings:

World setup: Small world size, everything else standard

Civ choices: Ottomans; all AI civs random

Victory conditions: Cultural and Diplomatic off, others on


Some notes:

1. Leonardo's Workshop was a waste of shields, but I figured it was better to have than completely waste all that production. I was pre-buidling for Copernicus's Observatory. Surprisingly the AI researched down the Engineering path first, giving me more mileage out of the GL but messing up my production. I actually had a choice between Sun Tzu's and Leonardo's, and selected the latter to keep money out of the AI's pockets. The Japanese ended up getting Sun Tzu's, which was probably a factor in my demise.

2. Workers appear to cost around 100-125 gold now. I ended up buying a couple anyway, since the AI wanted Chivalry and other warmongering techs for them. Trades like this are fine because they're more likely to waste their time on military units, which is good for you.

3. I was lucky to be the only Scientific civ. This allowed me to sell Engineering and Nationalism for nice profit.

4. Importing Luxuries from civs that are Polite or Gracious costs from 25 to 50 gold. I assume this is because you've only got one city, so the AI reasons luxs are not worth much to you. The secret, of course, is that they're worth a lot, allowing you to put off building Temples and Cathedrals for quite some time.

5. I've come to realise that OCC is all about orchestrating the world diplomatic situation. I'm sure had I made moves to prevent Japan from becoming too powerful I would have won this game. Unfortunately, I couldn't sign any alliances against the Japanese because they had already surrounded me...


Dominae

[DaveMcW]

The usual GA timing does not help much in OCC. After the great library you have plenty of time to get everything you need before the copernicus prebuild, and you are not researching at all. I sometimes build wealth because I have nothing else to do!

Hoover comes right after you get 2 free techs, which means you are set for gold and can buy your way into the modern age if needed. Again, no improvements until SETI. A GA might help you get radio, but you don't really need it.

I find the best time for a GA is after the space race has started. It gives a larger % increase in trade after the colossus is obsolete. And you get a major boost to research and shields when you finally have critical techs to research and a massive project to build. With some artillery help it's not hard for an immortal to win a battle, and by now you should have a MPP target to kill.

[DaveMcW]

Being the only scientific civ is a huge benefit, probably more powerful than map size. I have so much more fun in OCC games where I have to use every trick in the book to keep them from getting the bonus tech first.

[Dominae]

DaveMcW, I've never been able to get the free tech first in the Middle and Industrial ages. For the Ancient-Middle transition, this is because I've built the GL so it would be useless anyway. I've never caught up to the AI in research at the end of the Middle ages; there's simply too many techs, so they're able to whore to their heart's content.

I don't have much experience with Standard maps, but I have to disagree that being the only Scientific civ is more of a factor that map size. Yes, you get a nice price for those free techs, but it doesn't compare to the limit on the number of cities (and hence research potential)the AI can build on smaller maps, IMO.


Dominae

[DaveMcW]

Here is a recent game on a large map where I was lucky enough to have my scientific competition killed off early.

Large pangea (70% water, middle climate settings)
12 civs all random
Emperor
Raging barbarians
Classic Civ3
Only victory conditions are conquest and space race.

Unfortunately I lost the 4000 BC autosave. I attached my earliest save at 3450 after building 3 warriors and making contact with India, trading Bronze Working/Masonry for Alphabet. Even though this is a classic civ3 game I didn't buy any workers until the industrial age.


3350BC: 4th Warrior
2850BC: Granary
2590BC: Temple
1870BC: Colossus
1830BC: Writing
1200BC: Literature ***
1150BC: Great Library
1125BC: Map Making, etc.

I traded world maps every 3-4 turns until Education, and sold/gifted all techs from the GL. Looking at the world map, there are only 11 civs! I have a bad feeling the civ on an island somewhere will mess up my diplomacy plans. The other two scientific civs are the Greeks and my neighbor Russia.

630BC: Great Lighthouse
570BC: Galley
30BC: Found the Zulu island.

I kept the Zulu bankrupt with world maps, but refused to sell any techs. This prevented them from getting any great wonders (especially Universal Suffrage) until the modern age. But they caught up anyway...

70AD: Finished all improvements, started prebuild for Copernicus Observatory.
230AD: Invention
280AD: Education

My treasury was 3000 when the GL became obsolete. China and America were the world's superpowers, thanks to their industrious workers and excellent start positions. America seemed to be doing all the research but China could always afford to break the monopoly.

400AD: Astronomy from China for 500 gold and contact with Zulu (discount for researching part of it).
Chivalry + Gunpowder + 400 gold from backwards civs for Astronomy and contact with Zulu.
440AD: Copernicus Observatory
550AD: China declares war on the Greeks.
570AD: Chemistry
Printing Press + Music Theory + Banking + Navigation from backwards civs for Chemistry.
730AD: Metallurgy from China for 800 gold (discount for researching part of it).
Physics + Democracy + Free Artistry + Economics + 200 gold from backwards civs for Metallurgy.
760AD: The rampaging Chinese forces have destroyed the Greeks.
800AD: Military Tradition from China for 600 gold (discount for researching part of it).
Magnetism + Theory of Gravity from backwards civs for Military Tradition + 1200 gold + 80 gpt.

I went bankrupt buying my way into the industrial age, putting gold income at 100% and giving it all away. But it all paid off because the Russians did not have Theory of Gravity...

800AD: Nationalism ***
3500 gold + 100 gpt from all civs for Nationalism.
850AD: Newton's University

When not building improvements, I began stockpiling workers and catapults.

1020AD: Medicine ***
Steam Power + 200 gold + 500 gpt from all civs for Medicine.
1110AD: Electricity from China for 2000 gold (discount for researching part of it).
Industrialization + Communism from backwards civs for Electricity.
1250AD: China declares war on the Russians.
1275AD: China declares war on the Indians.
1280AD: Scientific Method ***
Sanitation + Corporation + 2200 gold + 400 gpt from all civs for Scientific Method.
1285AD: Theory of Evolution
Atomic Theory ***
Electronics ***
Replaceable Parts + Refining + Espionage + 550 gpt + ROP from all civs for Atomic Theory.
Gifted Electronics to all civs.
Mobilized for war and upgraded 10 artillery, 3 infantry.
1290AD: Hospital, 7 workers are added to the city.
1300AD: The rampaging Egyptian forces have destroyed the Russians. (China allied the whole world against the Russians at the end.)
1420AD: Radio***
Cumbustion + 1000 gold + 900 gpt from all civs for Radio
1465AD: Mass Production + Motorized Transport + Flight in a big trading frenzy that costs me 5000 net gold.

I entered the modern era with 40,000 gold.

Rocketry***
9000 gold + 450 gpt from all civs for Rocketry.
1485AD: I join the ever-growing alliance against India. They are down to one city and I need to turn off mobilization so I can build a research lab and SETI. My army is 10 infantry, 26 artillery, 2 tanks.
1505AD: After I nicely bombard the Indian city down to size 1 for them, my allies all sign a peace treaty! I finish India myself, knowing that my allies' backstab will hurt their reputations a lot more than a kill will hurt mine.
1510AD: China declares war on the Aztecs.
1560AD: Ecology from America for 400 gpt.
MPP with China, Egypt, Rome, France for Ecology.
I declare war on America.
1565AD: The world declares war on America.
1575AD: Computers from France for 6000 gold.
1630AD: Space Flight from the Zulu (discount for researching part of it) and Fission from the Chinese, no net profit.
6000 gold from the France for Space Flight + Fission.
1645AD: The rampaging Egyptian forces have destroyed the Americans.
1650AD: Zululand signs an MPP with Japan, who only has 1 city left.
1660AD: With 1 turn left on my anti-American MPPs, I declare war on Japan.
1665AD: Japan attacks me just like America did. All my allies declare war on Japan.
China and Rome attack and kill Japan, triggering a war with Zululand.
1670AD: Zululand buys MPPs with Egypt and France, who declare war on Rome and China.
1675AD: Apollo Program, spies installed.
1685AD: Superconductor from the Zulu for 25,000 gold.
Satellites from France for Superconductor + 5000 gold (discount for researching part of it).
Synthetic Fibers from China for Satellites + Superconductor.
1756AD: All civs on the continent are warring and double-crossing in monarchy/communism. Zululand is still a democracy.
Alliance with China, Rome, France vs. Zululand. Egypt is still MPP with the Zulu.
1770AD: Egypt is dying. I declare war and pick off a longbowman with an immortal, triggering a golden age.
1786AD: Nuclear Power
1788AD: The rampaging Roman forces have destroyed the French.
1794AD: Finished component number nine, 25 turns until The Laser. Zululand has eight components, working on Exterior Casing (18 turns left) in Ulundi, and also researching The Laser. And they are STILL a democracy, although half the population is entertainers.
1802AD: The rampaging Chinese forces have destroyed the Egyptians.
1816AD: Zululand finally falls into anarchy. I sabotage the Exterior Casing.
1824AD: Zululand becomes a communism. They accept my peace treaty and even give me an ROP for cheap. Six transports set out for Zulu Island, carrying my entire army of 32 artillery, 8 MI, 8MA. The Exterior Casing will complete in 8 turns now that war weariness is not a factor, and sabotage won't work against communism. (I wasted 15,000 gold trying anyway, but it was insanely difficult to even create a spy.)
1838AD: ROP rape, Ulundi is razed 2 turns from completing the exterior casing.
1840AD: Zululand discovers The Laser one turn before me (It would be more but their discovery reduced my research time). The Ulundi strike force is decimated by a 20 MA counterattack.
1842AD: The Laser
My Airport prebuild is switched to Planetary Party Lounge.
1844AD: SS Victory

[DaveMcW]

And a screenshot... the minimaps are from 10 AD, 1000 AD, 1650 AD, 1842 AD.