FP+Palace placement

[bbaws]

Very rare that you will have your first city slap bang in the middle of a circular continent, right? So your empire will always but always have a long axis. That's going to be a line on the map. Look at the relation of your capital to this axis. Imagine a second axis combining the geographical axis and the corruption gradient. It should become immediately obvious where to place your FP to attain an ellipse of very low corruption cities. Later on in the game it's your choice whether to use a GL to shift your palace to a different continent.
I've played games where I've shifted my capital four or five times in order to boost production in newly captured lands but what tends to happen is you end up paying a lot of upkeep for improvements that are suboptimal to say the least. Now I just go for an elliptical highly productive core and invest heavily in means of transport to shift those lovely units about as quick as possible. PS if it takes more than twenty turns for a 8-12 pop city to build your FP you're going to get a dead zone of corruption between the palace and the FP.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Theseus
There are times when there are no GWs to be built, and no dire need for more Armies (well....).

i think you're talking about the middle to end of the industrial age. only (iirc) scientific method, hoover's dam and women's suffrage... and then nothing until SETI.

i once did a mistake and had a leader after those wonders and fortified him in a city... and forgot that there can't be more than one leader at a time... so i fought several world wars without another leader. in THAT case i should have used him for a palace relocation - true...

but otherwise... i don't know...

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
i get 3-4 leaders in an extremely aggressive and permanently-fought games at standard size... and that's if i'm lucky!

and these leaders i'll need for army (--> heroic epic & military academy), sistine, smith's trading, hoover dam, scientific method and if possible also the scientific wonders (colossus, copernicus, newton, seti) ... i don't have free leaders for multiple palace relocations...

Last first: why would you use a leader on epic or any SW? Scientic Method is a tech and GL can not help. If you ony have 4 in a game- army-hoover are valid uses. Most of the time on a std map I will get 4-6 regardless of traits or play style. If on a bigger map as Rome and playing warmonger, it can be anything up 55. Common would be about 15. If you are getting more than 10 on a huge map you can use them for trival things. The key is not to keep them around, so you can get more.

[Theseus]

sabrewolf meant ToE.

I agree with vxma1, though, in that if you are having a dearth of GLs, an Army and Hoover are probably my priorities, followed by Bach and Smith's. Most others (not always) I can nab through pre-builds.

What you CAN'T do, however, is effectively build a distant Palace or FP, and in a largish empire, that is critical. So a GL for this purpose is a fairly high priority.

[vmxa1]

I did not mention FP as I figured by the time I am going for Hoover I already have my FP, but it is a good use of a GL.

[Catt]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
what map size and difficulty level do you guys play on?

i get 3-4 leaders in an extremely aggressive and permanently-fought games at standard size... and that's if i'm lucky!

I generally play Emperor, sometimes Monarch and sometimes Diety. Usually play on standard or small maps (sometimes large, every so often tiny for a quick game).

Like the others, I tend to focus some atention specifically on generating GLs, and might typically have generated between 2 and 5 by the early industrial age. From the industrial age onwards, it becomes increasingly easy to generate GLs, and the only limitations are those you place on yourself - lack of fighting, lack of using GLs, or less than optimal use of elite units. Coincidentally, as others have pointed out, it is also after the start of the industrial age that Palace jumping comes into its own -- if you need a GL for Hoover, by all means use it, but I've been having pretty good luck securing Hoover just be securing ToE through proper pre-building. Assuming that I used an early GL for an army (and it was victorious ), I have the Military Academy up and running and building just about nothing but armies. At this point GLs just become rush tools, and rushing the Palace can be a great tactic - with access to courthouses, police stations and factories, a Palace jump allows for a decent production core, even in pretty corrupt areas, once the Palace moves on. If I'm not moving my Palace, I'm probably using GLs on factories or armies. By the time of modern armor, GLs get used on cathedrals, libraries, etc. -- anything just to use them up and free up a slot for a new GL.

Catt

[sabrewolf]

yep, i meant the theory of evolution, sorry...

i think it's a very powerful wonder. if you time it properly, it saves you approx. 8-16 turns (usual time for two reseached techs). time you can use to catch up in science, distance your opponents or just compensate as cash cow (which i don't recommend)

i usually use it in either of following two ways:

- if i managed to pre-build the wonder, i'll get atomic theory and electronics, two very scientificly intensive techs and race for the hoover dam (one of my favority wonders, because i like playing continents/pangea and consider myself as builder).

- speed through that slow phase of researches with no interesting products (corporation, refining, steel, combustion) and get those tanks early... getting those tanks 12 turns earlier than the AI means some dozen tanks (on standard size) to wipe out those lousy infantries and riflemen. cripple my neighbors and make them never be able to match my level again. soon after tanks (maybe 3-4 techs) come mechanised infantry which means my cities and virtually indefeatable until modern armour... so another (last) building phase.

i've also used ToE just for catching up in tech against the AI. the AI doesn't really bealine towards a specific tech, so if i do, that one extra tech can give me 3-4 others in exchange


so, that was my ode to darwin's wonder

[ducki]

Alright, this is a good thread.
Hopefully my attachment will work below of my current game.

Yeah, it's Chieftan, I'm still learning and have yet to play a "complete" game.

What I'd like to know is, how'm I doing?
Is my FP placement good, considering I'll probably move my own Palace to Washington when war breaks out?

That little city next to my FP city was a desperate attempt to get horses and deny them to Rome - which worked!

I accidentally blew my GA by building the Oracle in the Late Ancient Age - I was hoping to have low enough production that it would just be a pre-build for Sun Tzu or Sistine or something else I really wanted...at least I was in Republic at the time.

In fact, I was going to let America build the Pyramids in Washington too, since it would soon be my capital, but my production skyrocketed during my GA.


Anyway!
How's my FP placement, assuming a Palace Jump to Washington?

Should I trade my world map now, or wait until I finish colonizing that island to the North between "us" and Japan(isolated continent)?



So far I've had no wars. Not a single battle fought. That American city on the west coast culture flipped and I expect the one on the peninsula to do the same soon...saves me the trouble of building a settler and working the infrastructure while I worry about that Island.(Extra Iron and Horses! Woohoo!)

[ducki]

Darn, first try my image was too big.

The round circle on Memphis(?) denotes my FP city.
The arrow in the northwest points to the new island with extra Iron and Horses, plus 2 cows, 2 whales, some tundra and not a whole lot in the way of shield bonus tiles...one or maybe 2 hills.

So, if you don't want the download the save, you can get an idea of FP and planned capitol placement (Washington).

Comments? Ideas?

Edit: Changed Philadelphia to Washington as Palace jump target.

[ducki]

Darn again. I accidentally cut off the map.
Here it is.

[Theseus]

I like Memphis for the FP, but I wouldn;t bother with Philly. You're going to want to project the CF power of the Palace in to the heart of America and Persia (if it's even necessary to move the Palace).

[ducki]

Did I say Philly?
I meant Washington. Sorry for the mixup.

Palace Jump to Washington...or is there a better spot on the minimap?

[Theseus]

I'd lean toward Seattle. Do you mean a Palace Jump or building a new one?

[ducki]

Building a new one. I didn't realize there was a distinction, since you can only have one, I thought building one was a "jump".

I originally dismissed Seattle because it's on a coast, but does having the land on the other side of that "bay" or inlet make Seattle more efficient?
Or is it because there's Iron there?
Or some reason I've completely missed out on?


P.S. Thanks for the feedback!

[Theseus]

1. Coast means gold.
2. The towns north of Washington aren;t going to amount to much anyway.
3. Again, projection of Palace Power in re culture flipping.

"Palace Jump" is when you abandon your original capitol, and then the 'best ' remaining town / city automatically gets a new Palace.