PTW- Celtic Strategy Thread

[notyoueither]

All I have to say is bravo.

Good analysis based on preliminary information. Much of your reasoning seems sound based on the assumptions and historical fact.



I do have one other thing to add...

Gallia delenda est!

[Objectivist]

Looks like i may have been right about the stat mods on the celtic swordsman. This is taken from the latest bunch of screenshots released.

[Catt]

For the record - I'm really not trying to rain on your parade (though it may seem like it). If I had to guess, I'd say that, IMHO, it's quite likely that the Celt's UU's ADM stats are probably 3.2.2 and the UU replaces the swordsman, just as you predict.

But . . . a familiar screenshot just appeared (8/30/02) on the official Civ 3 website (www.civ3.com) -- see below.

I post just to say that I really don't think anyone can come to any conclusions about what PtW has in store - it's still up in the air.

Catt

[Catt]

And another, from playtesters at IGN.

This one also supports the concept of a 3.2.2 swordsman, but notice that this one is named a "Gallic Swordsman" whereas the screen shot Objectivist posted is labeled "Celtic Glory" -- Celtic Glory could very well be a "named unit" since it appears that it is an elite unit that has generated a leader.

Catt

[Aeson]

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3infocenter.shtml#ptw (Scroll down a bit)

Personally they don't look too balanced. 3.2.2 is still a bit overwhelming when combined with Rel/Mil. It's a mounted warrior with better defense.

The 5.3.3 Conquistador looks a bit insane as well. Treats all terrain as roads? That would be 9 moves in enemy territory over any terrain. They might not be as strong on offense, but you could easily rip apart someone's infrastructure in no time with these, always ending your turn on good defensive terrain.

On water maps though, Vikings could be lots of fun.

[Catt]

I agree. I don't know what we'll end up with, but a 3.2.2 swordsman in a Militaristic civ just strikes me as the end of tactics (but that's what playtesting is for!). Fastest ancient age unit, combined with the strongest offensive AND defensive stats in the ancient age (except, in each single case, for a single UU from another civ), in a civ with access to cheap barracks and frequent unit promotions. And now apparently a somewhat viable upgrade path (although, if the Med Inf turns out to be 4.2.1, I'd probably be inclined to keep my Celtic Swords around until guerillas, just as I keep hoplites around until riflemen / infantry).

I have got to believe that the Conquistador will be either a 3-move unit or a 1-move unit with all terrain as roads.

It's fun to speculate, but I gotta repeat that we won't know what we've got until the X-pack is released.

Catt

[Objectivist]

Yea, Catt your right, I have no way of knowing for sure about what the stats are, but it is fun to speculate, not to mention by writing this thread I could make sure I was writing a strategy that had not yet been covered in this forum. Finally I think that to balance the Celtic UU they "might" increase the shield price to handicap what looks like an awesome ancient era unit, or maybe require that it has two reasources or something like that.

[Nakar Gabab]

But what resources could they require? Iron? Well, all swordsmen-units use iron. Not much balance help there. Horses? But he's not on a horse! Oh well, that doesn't stop Samurai...

Are there any other ancient age resources? I can't think of any.

As to shield costs... who cares if it costs more? It's worth it, and that aside, just do a mass-upgrade with warriors. Wham-bam, thank you ma'am, you've got a Gallic Swordsman army, ready to swarm. This could be interesting.

[Admiral PJ]

Celts are the best, so they should get the best UU :>
the scots were great fighters, to the point of stupidity (my mums scottish)

Just cut off their iron and make sure your good friends with them before gunpowder comes along and you can defend with your musketmen against the celt swordmen.

I've always been scared of men with red hair anyhow

I don't believe the celt swordsman will be 4.2.2 in the final game.. although maybe they've given all units +1 movement to make realistic retreat strategies(some would stay at 1 of course like hoplites etc)

[Arrian]

A 3/2/2 swordsman? That's insane. Build 20 vet warriors, save 800 gold, hook up iron, upgrade, and destroy the world. They're like the MW on steroids. Nothing can really stop them until Knights. If you aren't the most powerful civ in the world by then, I don't know what went wrong. You only really need to research 2 techs (BW, IW).

-Arrian

[alexman]

I think Aeson summed it up: If they release such a unit, there is no need for strategy.

[Objectivist]

I am vindicated. PTW is out and the Celtic UU has the following stats.

3 Attack
2 Defense
2 Movement

50 shield cost
(Regular swordsman is 30)

Im not entirely sure what the upgrade cost for warrior to Celtic swordsman is but im pretty sure its probably a bit more then your standard upgrade cost (which is 40 gold). Either way my guess was right.

[alexman]

It's 80 gold per upgraded unit.
Although I don't have PtW yet, I think the 50 shield cost is about right for this very powerful unit.

[vmxa1]

Arrian, I am not so sure that they will chop up Numidian Merc at 231 when forted in a city. But they will be bad news.

[Objectivist]

The Greeks will give the Celts a much harder time then the Carthagians will simply because of the comparitive production rates of the units. In order of difficulty, the Celts will have the most trouble with..... (ancient civs)

1. The Greeks

The Greeks can produce hoplites at a very fast rate when compared to the production rate of the GS (Gallic Swordsman). The Greeks can make 5 Hoplites (1.3.1) for every 2 GS a Celtic player makes. Combine this with the fact that given half a chance a Greek player will pillage your Iron and fortify itself on your hill/mountain.

2. Romans

Same as Greek but cost a bit more, they are also much better at countering any weakened CS.

3. Iriquois

Mounted Warriors not only cost less then GS but also have the same mobility making it difficult to control place of engagement. On the plus side they have 1 less defense.


4. Carthage
Numidans are almost the same as Greek units operationally but cost a bit more. (10 shields more) (I wouldnt waste these expensive units on an attack unless I was close to taking an important strategic objective in that turn)

5. Persians

Immortals are awesome on the offensive in the ancient era. Your best bet against these beasties is to use mobility to attack them instead of trying to defend against them. They can still be a tough opponent if they use a spearman screen correctly to make your GS vulnerable to their Immortals.

Since PTW is out I encourage people to not only contribute to this thread, but to also post other PTW and Civ specific stratigies.