Monarchy vs. Republic

[Knecht]

I have always aimed for the Republic on my way to Democracy but have lately been considering reseaching Monarchy as a quicker way to get Despotism behind me and thus gain the advantages of irrigation sooner. With the Republic, you gain additional commerce on squares that already have it but you lose more to corruption and waste. Is this a wash? Should I forget about the Republic and get to Monarchy as soon as possible (and also possibly get other techs like Currency earlier as well)? Or (because Monarchy to Democracy is such a long trip) should I go for them both? Is there any accepted wisdom on this issue?

[Lord Merciless]

The key to winning in Civ3 is the constant warfare. You need to have GLs, free workers, and resources to build up your civ, and to weeken AI civs at same time. To fight wars, you must be in Monarchy.

Speaking of corruption, the Republic is not any better. So I will ALWAYS use Monarchy as opposed to Republic.

[Theseus]

There are some differences that matter, given certain circumstances.

Here are the differences tht I can think of:

* Free units:
Monarchy - 2 for towns, 4 for cities, and 8 for metros.
Republic - none.

* Military police:
Monarchy - up to 3.
Republic - none.

* War Weariness:
Monarchy - none.
Republic - some (level 1).

* Corruption:
Monarchy - some (level 2).
Republic - less (level 1).

* Tile bonus (not sure if I know this well):
Monarchy - none.
Republic - yes... I believe it is +1 gold for cities and +2 gold for metros.

So, if you are committed to a large military, Monarchy goes a long way.

If you have a large empire, and a smallish military (what are you thinking?), then Republic can pay off.
___________________________

Re the other original question:

I believe that Currency is probably the most important non-military tech in the game. Prioritize it.

[alexman]

Lord Merciless is right. Republic and Monarchy have virtually identical corruption.

The tile bonus a big one though. +1 commerce from any tile that already produces one (for metros, cities, and towns alike). It's like a golden age in commerce, compared to Monarchy!

Of cource, all that extra money gets wasted on unit support and luxuries, unless:

1) You have a small military
2) You have access to at least 2-3 luxuries

These two factors are what determine whether to go to Monarchy or Republuc for me.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Theseus
* Corruption:
Monarchy - some (level 2).
Republic - less (level 1).

Actually, the difference between 'nuisance' corruption (Republic) and 'problematic' corruption (Monarchy) is negligible.

* Tile bonus (not sure if I know this well):
Monarchy - none.
Republic - yes... I believe it is +1 gold for cities and +2 gold for metros.

It's +1 gold for every worked tile that already produces gold (i.e. either roaded or with a bonus ressource). This can make for a huge difference in commerce income.

EDIT: Alexman obviously hit the 'submit reply' button faster.

[I-iZ-1337]

Republicz iz wikedz if j00 wantz t00 g0 th33 scienz r00t3z.. forz 3arl33 spazeshipz it roxxorz a11 otherz optionz. If j00 iz goinz th33 conquezt approachez j00 n33dz monarch33z f0rz n0 warz w33r33nez.

[Arrian]

Theseus,

As I discovered in my "game of ultimate power" Monarchy corruption is pretty much comparable to Republic corruption - it's just that you have a huge drop-off in total commerce generated. But, like you point out, you don't have to pay for your armed forces. I was supporting huge numbers of units, had well-placed Palace & FP, and most of my "core" cities were on rivers or lakes, meaning they were all size 12 and generating a fair amount of trade.

The only time I really debate between republic and monarchy is if I'm playing a non-religious civ. If I'm religious, I can just switch whenever. If I'm not, this is a big decision. I've gone both ways with it. First, in the aforementioned GoUP, I went with Monarchy and had a lot of success with it. In my most recent Chinese warmongering rampage, I went with republic... and had quite a bit of success with that. WW was hardly a factor, because large numbers of Riders can tear through an AI empire pretty quick.

-Arrian

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Arrian
I was supporting huge numbers of units

Hmm ... What was your approximate ratio of units (including workers) per city a) at a time when you were in a 'builder' mode and had no short-time plans for war b) at a time when you had amassed units to go out for conquest?

[Arrian]

lockstep,

Hmm, not sure. The only time I was really in full "builder mode" was between the conquest of France and the invasion of America. That wasn't a very long time.

I was at war for most of the game. Archer attack on England, horse/sword attack on India, then Japan. Riders to finish Japan and start on France. Cavalry to finish France and destroy America and all but 1 city of the Iroquois.

I remember that going into my war with Japan I was actually slightly over the "allowed" number of units, so I had to pay for some of them. After finishing Japan, I don't think I paid for my units ever again.

I have a lot of saved games, so I could check the exact numbers for you.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Ok, I checked my old "Ultimate Power" thread, and I had posted two F3 screens in there...

420AD:

87 units/68 allowed (19gpt in support). Looks like 69 were actual military units, and 18 were workers.

1465AD: 191 units/218 allowed. Not sure about workers vs. military units.

-Arrian

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Arrian
lockstep,

I have a lot of saved games, so I could check the exact numbers for you.

-Arrian

That would be very helpful. Actually, I'm tinkering with the idea to give Republic and Democracy unit support costs of 2 instead of 1, but link this with a small number of free units. (The idea is that a Rep/Dem in 'builder' mode should have somewhat more gold than in the standard setting, but a Rep/Dem amassing units should have a bigger strain on its economy.) Your numbers – although you chose Monarchy - would provide some hints what actual numbers of free units for Rep/Dem would be balanced - 0/1/2, 1/2/4, etc. (For Monarchy and Communism, numbers of free units are 2/4/8).

[Arrian]

Lockstep,

Do you want me to give you the numbers from each save, or would you like me to post the saves themselves?

-Arrian

[lockstep]

Hmm ... I always wanted to analyze saves from an expert player's game. Yes, I'd like you to post a few examples (builder mode vs. amassed units).

[Arrian]

Flattery will get you everywhere

When I get home, I'll dig up some saves and post 'em in the old UP thread. Like I said, though, I don't think I had a true "builder" phase. By the time I turned on the French I was pretty much building and warmongering all at once. I was strong enough to do both.

-Arrian

[lockstep]

Thanks in advance. And it would be nice if you could provide a link to the saves in this thread.