Is the Great Library Useless?

[tatterdemalion]

I am a newb at this game, so forgive me if I am dregging up ancient history here. But I have been playing a number of games on Regent lately. I finally got a Leader and was able to finish a wonder before the AI. I built the GL and assumed that I would ride the surf wave of technology straight to the industrial era. I made that assumption because I was always about two techs behind the AI, no matter how much I concentrated on science. Anyway. I built the GL, cranked my science way down so I could rush built city improvements and waited for the techs to pour in.

I waited and waited and waited. Lo and behold the AI seems to have stopped research. I think I have gotten maybe three improvements in the 500 years since I built the GL.

Now, I am not the suspicious type. Strike that. I *am* the suspicious type. It sure seems as though the AI stopped even trying to develop tech once I got the GL. It's not like they have a ton of gold either. Does the AI perform a lobotamy on itself once you get the GL?

[delsolsi]

Re: Is the Great Library Useless?

Originally posted by tatterdemalion
I am a newb at this game, so forgive me if I am dregging up ancient history here. But I have been playing a number of games on Regent lately. I finally got a Leader and was able to finish a wonder before the AI. I built the GL and assumed that I would ride the surf wave of technology straight to the industrial era. I made that assumption because I was always about two techs behind the AI, no matter how much I concentrated on science. Anyway. I built the GL, cranked my science way down so I could rush built city improvements and waited for the techs to pour in.

I waited and waited and waited. Lo and behold the AI seems to have stopped research. I think I have gotten maybe three improvements in the 500 years since I built the GL.

Now, I am not the suspicious type. Strike that. I *am* the suspicious type. It sure seems as though the AI stopped even trying to develop tech once I got the GL. It's not like they have a ton of gold either. Does the AI perform a lobotamy on itself once you get the GL?

So far I've had really good luck with the GL. I usually go straight for literiture so I can get it. Depending on the game sometimes I only get two or three techs, on average I'd say I get four or five techs from it, I've gotten as many as 12 or 13 techs in one game where I had a crappy start position and didn't find four of the other civs in the game until one turn before I got education and they where all almost ready to go to the next era.

[The diplomat]

The GL rocks. In fact, I even started a thread on why I love it so much (check it out).

In one game, I went from just having 5 techs to actually moving to the Middle Ages in just 2 or 3 turns, thanks to the GL!

[Arrian]

In a word, no. It's one of the best in the game.

Well, it's largely useless on chieftain & warlord. It's useful on Regent. Very useful on Monarch and above. This is due to the fact that the human has a research advantage on the lowest levels, parity at Regent, and is at a disadvantage above that.

I've not noticed the AI slowing its research down because the GL has been built. Not at all. Perhaps the AI's in your game got into a big war? That will hurt the tech progress rate. Also, you cannot ride the GL into the industrial era because it becomes obselete with education, which is 1/3 of the way into the middle ages.

How many civs do you have contact with? The more the merrier! Things slow down when you only know 2 or 3 civs.

By the way, it's not a bad thing if you haven't gotten that much tech from the Library... the AI is backward and poor. You're backward and rich. Use that money you're raking in to rushbuild improvements and such. You could also use it to support a large army and go bonk some heads

-Arrian

[tatterdemalion]

thanks! These replies are useful. Didn't know the GL expired with Education. That's ...... quick.

[Arrian]

Tatterdemalion,

It was very quick, but the 1.29 patch has slowed things down a bit, and the GL is more powerful because of it.

The ability to run 100% taxes for 1/2 an age (late ancient/early medieval) is pretty powerful.

-Arrian

[Col. Carnage]

Built it for the first time last night. Received about 6 techs in 30 turns or so. Compare this to ToE where you get only 2 techs for free and it stacks up pretty well. Running 100% tax for the best part on an age doesn't hurt either.

[DrFell]

Great Library is pretty good on emperor and deity level. I don't like using it on monarch because I can usually get a tech lead by the middle ages, but on higher levels the AI advances fast enough. I only build it if I get a leader (but I build Forbidden Palace first), and it's really difficult to build on deity unless you shoot right for it off the bat. Problem with that approach is you can end up neglecting expansion and warfare which is so critical in gaining you size and tech parity on the high levels.

[The Pioneer]

One reason I always try to get GL is to deny it to the AI! The consequences of one AI civ getting techs for free can be annoying to say the least!

[DrFell]

On higher levels the AIs get the techs at cut-down prices anyway. The other AIs sell things to each other much cheaper than they do to the human.

[steven8r]

The Great Library is one of the (if not THE) best Wonders to build in the Ancient Age.

If you are not getting many advances from it, build more boats and go out looking for more civs. Every time you meet someone you will gain a tech from them (that you don't already know).

One thing that I've noticed, though, you have to meet the civ, then wait 1 turn to get their techs. You probably won't get any of their techs right as you meet them.

I've noticed in one game that I was able to research something, then on that same turn, I was able to sell that tech TO the civ w/ the Great Library!!!!! The key (if you want to keep the AI from doing this) is do not purchase/trade techs from the AI if you've got the GLib. Just wait 1 turn and you will have it anyway.

On a side note: I've also noticed that I have been able to sell Monotheism, Nationalism, and Rocketry to 'Scientific' civs! Mwu Haa Haa Haa!
"All your gold are belong to us!!!!!
You just have to sell them the techs while still in the Diplomatic Window. For example: Greece is behind you in techs and it is (for him) late Middle Age. You can sell Alex Flight and Magnetism--relitively cheaply, then turn right around that same turn and sell him Nationalism.
Mwu Haa Haa Haa!

[Gen.Dragolen]

Tatterdemalion,

Once you have the GL, make sure you have contact with every civilization possible since you only get what 3 other civ's already have discovered/traded. Buying and selling contact is another nice cash cow as well.

D.

[Arrian]

You get what any 2 civs you have contact with know, not three. Of course, the more civs you know, the better.

Even in isolation it can be useful, however, provided you don't wait TOO long to make contact. The GL remains in effect until the turn AFTER you get Education. Thus you can get techs past Education from the GL. Of course, it's better not to fall so far behind in the first place.

-Arrian

[Japher]

I think that the GL is probably the worst wonder to spend early shields on. I would rather have the pyramids. It is all really a give or take on how you want to play the game anyway. I don't mind buying my techs and would rather not build something that expires so soon, haven't played with 1.29 though.

I think the original poster is having problems because they don't know enough people. Were I to build the GL I would get to know everyone quickly before building the library. Also, trade all your techs away as soon as you get them so that you can get more civs with techs you have so they can research the techs you don't have. (Make sense?) You can get a lot of free crap this way too... and that is the real advantage of the GL not to be one the most three technologically advanced civs, but to be the wealthiest and most liked civ...

[Deathwalker]

I like the GL, if you've made contact with few other Civs if an easy way to keep up with them. Because they always trade techs with each other. Is there a way to reduce that?