Alamo Testing Thread

[Aeson]

I see the gold as a problem. Troop disposition is not what I'd use it for... rather taking a huge deficit to research the space techs in no time. Maybe with a rushed army or two. It's an awful lot of gold to play with.

[Bambul]

"Do you ever get to a point where you found your ground defense to be good enough?" -DeepO

I've only played beta1 so far so my reply is probably not valid for beta2 and later but... My ground defence weren't "good" (3-4 armies at chokepoints and sufficient RA seemed to do the trick), but enough to make stopping incomming ships a priority - particularely in the East where I had lost my entire fleet (besides a sub and carrier) in an attampt to engage the German fleet and take it out (they attacked first, losing 3 destroyers and sinking my Eastern fleet).

If in the new version I have to protect from amphibious attack in the inland sea then things will obviously change. Whereas in beta1 I practically eliminated the German/Russian fleets in the sea, I doubt this will be the case now (I presume).

On a side note, army vs army battles have proved to be very entertaining. But the AI has a tendancy to throw MI armies at my forts in almost suicide missions (once a veteran MI held its ground against a 16 HP MI army, and get this - it didn't get promoted!)

[Velociryx]

Ahhhh! Good point, Aeson! Yep...the extra gold was put in for testing....will probably at least halve it again, if not more....2500-3000?

-=Vel=-

[DeepO]

'morning Vel... however, I'm preparing here to leave for home, to have some more testing done

I think you more or less have everything covered in the changes you propose. I'm still thinking a bit on how you propose the RAs on the first line, what if you'd only put down one there, and one in the second line? If people want to chose to abbandon their first line of defense, you automatically lose them.. not so nice. And it would mean a bit of protection to the second line, I don't care what happens to my first tier, but would really want to hold on the second in the first turn.

About the extra MAs moving to Washington: myeah... and what if you moved these on the road to the Russian front, thus avoiding that they bombard your road there? If they do, you get into problems, as there is no way the road can be fixed, and reinforcements can reach the first line of defense... Or, maybe better, leave workers positioned like that that when the bombers take out the road underneath them, they can still build it up again (no RR, but that is not really needed). I thought you had workers on the coal hill you are proposing as the place to set your extra RAs to keep them from bombing on the first 2 turns... if you have 2 of them there, the RAs could still immediately join the front. Maybe one there, the other on the Russian front-road?

The Chinese GA: okay, as they do not have full production yet it will be okay, I guess. Plus, their palace is to the side of their territory, so they will have to deal with corruption anyhow. Just make sure you mention it when you release the final save.

What are you planning on as a time schedule, today one final quick test, tonight - tomorrow morning the final? I still want to see how the AI will do with their marines, I didn't get that far with the previous saves, but if you want to release it now I'll go ahead with the latest version. I might cheat a little to get there relatively unharmed, but I'm really curious how well they will perform.

DeepO

PS: If you like the tacticals idea, can the USS Deep-O have one please? That would be very cool!

[DeepO]

As to the gold: it was just to let us steal battle plans... 3K would be good, no?
I was thinking on saving up on gold, you can gain 500 gpt at first (with your GA). That would make it possible to steal techs, instead of researching... another strategical decision to be made

DeepO

[Velociryx]

Good point....the Russians always seem to do better at bombing relevant stuff than the Germans...invariably they sever the road to the front, making reinforcement a bit dicey...will shuffle some MA around to cover that.

I like the notion of putting one RA on each tier (and having these stand down) rather than putting two on the first tier...will make that change...that's coolio

Schedule wise...I'll make the changes mentioned here, post what will likely be the last testing save...gotta work tomorrow til noon, EDT, and sometime after that, I'll take a last peek at the test results, make whatever last minute tweaks are needed, and post the file....howwzat sound?

-=Vel=-

EDIT: I'm thinking that The Deep-O and Arrian's Deception (both of the "named" subs) should each be packing a tactical....

[DeepO]

It sounds great, Vel... maybe I'll test the marine thing when I get back from work anyhow. This game has certainly got me all worked up, I am very certain that it will be one of the hardest 'one more turn' games around.

And both subs with tacticals would be perfect, if you make sure at least one of them is on the western side of the US (or both start out on the South, also good. You won't need them the first few turns anyhow).

DeepO

[Velociryx]

Yeah, if you get a chance, I'd be VERY curious to see how the Marines perform! THAT should make for some classic mid-game battling.

I'm also thinking that I'm gonna change my approach a bit, when I next test. I definitely agree that it's vitally important to hold onto both tiers of the choke point for as long as inhumanly possible, but I'm still thinking that, at least initially, I'm gonna slash and burn my first tier forts on the russian front, move my army to the German front and try to hold both tiers against them.

Also, I'm thinking that at least initially, I'm gonna set every city I've got to building MI until I get a decent number of them (I'm not even sure what a "decent number" would be...but a heckuva lot more than I got right now).

Til then, I'll constrict my navy and keep them very much on the defensive, making probes out with subs and the occassional plane to watch for approaching navy.

Once I get a respectable number of MI, I'll make a push to see if I can recapture the second line on the russian front, and rebuild the forts there asap (might need to make use of a nuke there to help thin the herd).

At that point....we'll see.

Oh...and I'm giving serious thought to changing to republic on turn one.

-=Vel=-

[phunny_pharmer]

Question-

Can you build space ships when mobilized?

[DeepO]

Changing to rep on turn 1??? Please tell me you anticipate some drafting before doing so, I can't see any other way how you can hold on during anarchy...

No, strats I'll likely be using: draft at least a few MIs from the get go, also be very carefull with my navy on the west, reconnaisance like you said, set the initial turns to zero tech and steal it once the AIs got it, build Panama when the transports are gone, using the leader on Magellan. I was thinking to steal the Chinese or Japanese battle plans on turn 1 and use 2-3 nukes on them to get them out of the picture. That's one of the reasons why I was asking for 3K in gold in the final... but it is a gamble, I have a feeling those nukes will come in handy once the actual race is getting close. Certainly when you can expect the AI to have a lot of GL generating possibilities.
I'm still not sure what is the best 'defense' against the hordes of troops coming your way, MI or RA. RA sends them back on their merry way to a barracks, but without MI you can be attacked by those that come from further on... it is an interesting choice. As so many in this game.

I'm certain that the strats thread will be one of large diversity, and a lot of comparing notes, and I wouldn't be surprised if many people are already following this thread (it has a lot of views for only a few people participating in the tests). Ooo, I can't wait already.

Right. That's it. Enough work for today. I'm going to test these marines

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by phunny_pharmer
Can you build space ships when mobilized?

I thought so... I'm not certain. But here's question right back at you: does mobilization has any effect on happiness, or war weariness? Remember that once mobilized you can not get out for the entire game... or you should somehow destroy a civ.

DeepO

[Velociryx]

Hmmm.....that's a good, interesting question....if you CAN build the ship while mobilized, it would solve a good many problems...'specially since you've already got your infrastructure in place...all you really need are ship parts, lots of MI, and a deck of cards....

As to drafting....I've avoided it like the plague so far...will continue to try avoiding it....I HAVE done massive rounds of rushing tho....get those veteran MI's cranked out in a big hurry.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

More thinking....four to seven turns of anarchy...you're right....that's a whole lotta hurt....if I do the rep switch on turn one, I might wanna burn both first tier forts and retreat to the wire (second tier on both).

If I empty out all my cities, keep my navy on watch, and am careful to let my f-15's rest, then I should emerge from the anarchy as the Republic of America, and have manageable war weariness for the whole rest of the game.

Granted, that's a pretty big gamble, BUT...the upshot will be that I'll have predictable production (no nasty surprises with WW unhappiness shutting down my production). 42 MI's divided over four tiles....yeah...I'm thinking it's doable. Two nukes to thin the herd when I'm ready to move back onto tier two, still leaves me two tacticals and two icbm's....I'm diggin it!

-=Vel=-

[DeepO]

I can only guess (so far I haven't seen any reports on this), but would expect mobilization to have a happyness impact. I mean, let's face it, who would want to work harder for a war for years in a row? I'm a peaceful guy, if I'm forced, a few years in the process I'll be running down the streets with banners and pamphlets.

As to drafting... I dont know. Usually I avoid it too, but if there is one game in which it can be the difference, surely this must be it. And I would do it only for the first turn, or in the event that things get out of hand.

I want to rush as well, but in beta 2 I needed the cash to be able to steal plans, in beta 1 I needed the navy badly. Maybe this time I can do it better. But then again, rushing in cities that build a MI in 2 turns seems like such a waste, and there aren't many unproductive cities around.

On my bike towards home I had another idea (it's becoming an obsession ): I am not sure anymore about the leader ready for Magellan. When you have so many elite MIs in the first defense, there is quite a big chance of generating a leader, maybe as high as 50%. You'd lose this when you already have one, sitting idle in a city. So I see two possibilities:
1. don't stand him down, and let people create an army in the first turn if they want to.
2. before saving what you will be giving to us, rush Magelan, and set it to exterior casing (as this is costlier, I think).

First option could be unbalancing, but then again, players have few units to spare anyhow. Second option would negate the choice a little, as it is not possible to build an army with the GL. You can only chose between a ship part and a wonder.
Last option is of course to forget about the chances of leader creation you are missing.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, am I wrong in thinking that the amount of turns you are in anarchy is (in part) a function of how many of your citizens want the change? Both in beta 1 and MT IV my people revolted, and both times it was just a 4 turn anarchy. But I didn't chose, my citizens did...

DeepO