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Monarch+ Early Game Research. 100% Tax rate and buy Techs? Start Science When?

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  • Monarch+ Early Game Research. 100% Tax rate and buy Techs? Start Science When?

    Whats the strategy for tech research on higher levels? Monarch, Emperor, Diety?

    I usually play Monarch for now..I'm sure diety is even worse. I have been playing pangea lately and there are alot of civs in contact from the getgo.

    SO, Just stockpile gold with 100% tax and Buy Techs from the tech whoring AI? Does anyone even attempt research in the beginning at the higher levels?

    Do you just set slider to 0% and trade techs? It seems if your on a big continent and 5-6 other civs are trading like mad that research is folly during the early/ancient game at least.

    What do you all do for research during the ancient era? Do you even bother?

  • #2
    Yes, if you're playing standard pangea or large continents on monarch then heavy investment in science in the early game is disaster. Once they've all got an early tech you can snap it up for about 50G, which you can save just a few turns with 90-100% tax.

    However, I have managed to sneak a tech or two even on 40-turn research - either with 10% on the slider or a lone (rotating) scientist. The AI seems to prefer some techs & branches over others so if you can nick one it could be worth a fair bit for the first sale.

    After the ancient phase it depends on play style - conquest or builder. Many warriors just use war and extortion for techs and hardly do any research. As it's easy to beat civ by war I prefer peace strats - which usually involve building, some subtle trading and waiting for the rivals to beat each other into economic slowdown to get ahead.

    This works well on the monarch/pangea map you describe as the pace of tech means short offensive-advantage windows plus a greater propensity for rivals to fight each other.

    The large/continents is interesting as you get the 8-9 civs on a large continent getting a whole era or two ahead of the lone civ on a small continent, but the lone civ can exploit its stategic safety to catch up in tech, then actually surge ahead in the end-game. I'll be posting my pangea-monarch strat 'The Peace Dividend' in full soon.


    • #3
      Sorry, I'm playing Warlord

      I don't know. I'm currently playing on Warlord Level, because I'm not having the game that long. I started on Chieftan Level and I won. So I continue with Warlord. And when I've won a Warlord Level Game, I continue with Regent, and so on.

      But one thing is sure: a part of the strategy for researching on higher levels is: build the Great Library.

      For the rest, I can't tell you anything, because I'm currently playing on Warlord.



      • #4
        The Great Library is good, but I find that even playing on Regent level it becomes obsolete very quickly because the techs advance so fast. Most of the time I don't consider it worth building.

        Is this just me?
        If I'm posting here then Counterglow must be down.


        • #5
          To answer the point about "when to start research" - I think you at least need libraries in most core productive cities, but you don't start getting a really competitive return on your investment till the universities are built - and this assumes your rivals are building and destroying each others units instead. Early middle age techs are usually best purchased, but in my last game (OK, I had the Great Lib) Music Theory was my first serious research project, as the AI tends to go for astronomy - which we humans don't care about on pangea.

          I always play the Egyptians, but a scientific civ could get it's libraries up quicker and may be in a position to compete for the early MA techs.

          It's *very* frustrating to go hell-for-leather research for a tech only for them to all get it the same turn, so I try to pick techs they don't want - then trade it for two others plus cash.

          The Art of Tech Trading is worthy of the sort of high-level discussion we see on this forum about the Art of War. I definitely need to get some threads started


          • #6
            Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
            The Great Library is good, but I find that even playing on Regent level it becomes obsolete very quickly because the techs advance so fast. Most of the time I don't consider it worth building.

            Is this just me?
            Pre-build with another wonder or Palace then switch to Great Lib once you buy literacy. Then you should get at least 8 techs for free, while the coffers pile high.

            Definitely *the* best early wonder, but you must have contact with as many civs as possible to get the most - so pangea helps.


            • #7

              It depends on several things:

              Civ choice
              Style of Play
              Map options

              My advice is for Monarch level, as that's where the bulk of my playing has taken place.

              For instance, playing as Japan with a warmongering mindset on a standard/continents/8 civs setup, I would do:

              1) bronze working
              2) ironworking
              3) warrior code

              at 50%

              4) masonry or mysticism
              5) horseback riding

              at 10% or 0% w/scientist

              Gold is horded for a massive upgrade of chariots to horsemen and warriors to swordsmen. The only Wonder I will attempt to build is the Colossus.

              Scenario #2: Egypt/builder/same map settings or pangea:

              1) alphabet
              2) writing
              3) literature

              @10% or so (UNLESS you think the AI may build the Pyramids before you discover literature, thus totally screwing you. If you see a lot of "so-and-so is building the pyramids" early on, use a higher science rate).

              Prebuild the GL using the Pyramids as a shield holder.

              Meanwhile, go for currency at 10% science.

              Get the GL, shut science off totally. Use gold influx to rush improvements (markets, libraries, courthouses, cathedrals, etc.). Upon the end of the GL's usefulness (Education), crank up your own research.

              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.


              • #8
                If others are like me, then this is a psychological issue. I feel I'm a failure if the AI has more tech!

                You've got to get in touch with your inner child on this topic. It's ok to be behind. In fact, the AI is a source of learning. Once you calm down about being tech deprived, you will reallize that you rarely actually lose a game because of a tech deficit early.

                My answer is to stay cool. You want the wheel and iron in order to do the land grab well. Go 100% for those techs. Otherwise, buy tech cheaply on higher difficulty levels, or, more likely, beat tech out of your unfortunate neighbor. (I tend not to go for early wonders, preferring a stack of ten MW to the "wonder" in question. If you do, then you will have to research a little more aggressively.)

                If you develop an economic powerhouse, which happens from time to time, you will find that the AI can't stay ahead of you. Then, you should switch to doing your own research, get a tech lead, and dominate the map early. However, don't demand of yourself that you always do this. Actually, the come-from-behind games are more fun.

                If far behind, one strat is to pick out a civ behind the leaders, but not too far behind, and pump up that civ's research budget by buying tech solely from them. You both move up to the leaders in tandem. But don't expect that civ to love you for your efforts.
                Illegitimi Non Carborundum