How does the AI handle multiple strategy units?

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

Gramphos , Solver , some players have put as barbarian units rifleman , advanced as infantry , and behold , the AI seems to use them very nice , ...

have a nice day

Does it use them for defense as well?

(Offense is always the primary flag (if set))

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Nakar Gabab
To answer your question... when I added some offensive flags to some traditionally defensive units, I found that the AI would attack with massed stacks of 'defenders' (infantry and mech infantry) in addition to 'attackers.'

I also found that they would frequently ABANDON their cities, leaving them utterly defenseless, if such flags were set. And yes, they were set to offense AND defense.

The question I get her: do you have a save? I want to check if it uses the units which afre defensive in the offense, or only the offensive ones.

[Solver]

Gramphos: I have just defeated Babylon at a game where its army consisted of Riflemen, then all upgraded to Infantry (mass upgrade!), as a result, 150 Infantry. I had 100 Infantry, and some other forces. After I attacked and beat the attacking infantry Babylon brought, they had about 45 remaining, and those stay in cities.

[=DrJambo=]

Yep, as a modder, this is one of the questions that still baffles me and can really affect a game if units are given 'bad' strategies.

Firstly in answer to Gramphos' question above.

Units labelled with the defensive tag will often be seen on the offensive. Pikeman and Spearman are the prime examples of this in patch 1.21 as most of the defensive units further up the tech tree have been given the offensive tag too. However, by pikemen and spearmen being offensive, i mean wandering through my land while at war and pillaging my resources; they don't actually attack cities..

Now.

This brings me to what i think the offensive and defensive tags actually represent. I think offensive 'generally' means whether a unit will initiate an attack, not so much whether the unit will be used in an offensive manner. In previous patches, one would always witness infantry invasions even though they were only tagged defensive, however, most of the actual unit/city attacking was done by cavalry. This is how it should be, but since some of the defensive units have now been tagged offensive too, we are seeing a whole stream of soley rilfemen/infantry/mechinf stacks invading and attacking cities.

This isn't an effective AI strategy as these units are too slow in the industrial era when railroads are being built. This results in easy pickings for the human player's artillery-unit combinations and will usually only serve to bolster their units to elite status. The speed of cavalry/tanks is required to give the human player a troublesome time.

Much to my annoyance, first impressions with the double tagged units in 1.21f were very little numbers of the effective, fast moving cavalry/tanks/modern armour attack units and too much of the rifleman/infantry/mechinf defence units.

Way to solve this. Simple.

Remove all defensive tags from 'defensive' units. You should still see them used 'offensively', not for unit/city attacking, but rather pillaging as was evident in pre-1.21f games.

I think they primarily introduced this feature to help solve the useless American F15 by allowing it to attack and defend and for allowing offensive naval units to carry missiles. And YES, i think Gramphos is almost certainly correct when he states that the AI has two types of the double tagged unit in the build queue, the offensive one and the defensive one.

Hope this information helps.

DOC

[Panag]

Originally posted by Gramphos

Does it use them for defense as well?

(Offense is always the primary flag (if set))

hi ,

yes and no , it depends , ....

have a nice day

[Panag]

hi ,

Gramphos , ... is it possible that the AI uses a unit on second as defensive , next minute as offensive , , ...

have a nice day

[BobTheBuilder]

I don't think the AI can switch between offensive and defensive as panag suggests.

At one point during war, I parked a mix of mech inf and tanks just outside a large (20) AI city. I could not attack during that turn. It was obvious that this was the only city was going to be attacked during my next turn.

Instead of fortifying the city, several AI infantry ran past my tanks on the RR (getting wounded in the process) in an attempt to attack one of the relatively undefended cities that I had taken from the AI in a former turn. They could not reach my city in that turn, but it was obvious what their objective was for the next turn. The effect was that they were easy pickings for my tanks that just got healed at another nearby city.

I think there are two problems here. First, the AI infantry would have served better defending the city that they were in. Secondly, if they really insisted that they had to leave the city, they could have taken a route that would not have subjected them to the pot shots taken by my tank and mech inf stack. The land was covered with RR, that they still controlled. They could have gotten to the same end tile without getting shot at.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

Gramphos , ... is it possible that the AI uses a unit on second as defensive , next minute as offensive , , ...

have a nice day

That's what I want to find out.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Gramphos

That's what I want to find out.

hi ,

got a game mailed , sjee , ...okay , example ;

two times barb infantry on a hill , fortified , near a river , both are under siege from to groups of veteran infantry , group one 10 strong , BANG , the barb infantry goes to regular , all 10 death , .......

next hill , BANG , BANG , barb infantry death , result , one dead and one elite , .....

same turn , can some-one please get an explanation on this , ....

have a nice day

[MiloMilo]

DrJambo, did you say remove defensive flags from defensive units? Was that a typo?

[Solver]

Originally posted by Gramphos

That's what I want to find out.

Evidence: I have landed two transports of Tanks and Mech Inf on the Roman island, with the aim of denying them resources and crippling economy, not actually taking cities. The moment I landed I saw some Infantry running around, and I even had to use my Marines to get a landing location. When I ended my turn, I saw all the Infantry of Rome I could see (I had ships around, too, so could see quite some) running into the Roman cities.

I believe this has to deal with comparative stengths. Rome: 3 Bombers, 2 Fighters, 15 Legionaries (it's Moden Age!), 42 Infantry, 1 Musketman.

Me, England: 110 Infantry, 20 Mech Inf, 40 Tanks, 35 Bombers, 8 Subs, 60 Marines (slightly improved in my mod), 2 Carriers and 4 Battleships. This is my main army. While I only landed 16 units on Roman island, I plan to bring 16 or 32 more.

So, maybe Rome knew I'm just going to overrun them completely if I attack with all my power (also allied with Greeks, huge navy), they would have no chance, so they put all they can to defense, knowing there's no reason for his Infantry to attack Tanks or Mech Inf?

[Gramphos]

panag,
that's totally random, and has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. (At least I think so)

Solver, interesting. I don't know about that. I still want a word from Soren.

[Solver]

Gramphos, just thinking, you can make about the same situation as me with the MultiTool. Give yourself a huge army, give another civ an Island with a small and weak army, land them, see what they do.

I also want a word from Soren, but I'm not sure if he has been reading this. He usually browses Civ3-General, as we can see.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Gramphos
panag,
that's totally random, and has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. (At least I think so)

Solver, interesting. I don't know about that. I still want a word from Soren.

hi ,

Gramphos , is this not a good proof of it , ....

what is funny is that sometimes there seems to be a difference between units , ....the same unit , and yet one seem's to defensive , the other offensive , ...
its like sometimes the same unit "switches" its attack with defense value's , ....

also intresting , it seems to hapen only with certain units , ...

and what is also intresting is that sometimes it happens with units that have no "known" defense bonus , in other words , out-side a city , out-side a fort , ...no hill , .....

and what is intresting is that when you have two units , or more , at the same spot , like the example before , yet two different outcomes , ..... okay that is normal , ..but to lose 10 units on the same type of enemy unit , ..... , that is a bit strange .

have a nice day