Tweet
This thread is the result of my musings on Vel's "The Virtues of Being Industrious." Specifically, Vel concluded that Industrious is THE best trait. Though he presented many good points in favor of Industriousness, I (after some in-game testing) disagree with that conclusion.
*DISCLAIMER: I play primarily on Monarch, and accept the possibility (though I doubt it) that playing on Diety boosts the relative power of Industriousness*
Why it's good to have God on your side
Religious, IMHO, narrowly beats out Industrious as the #1 trait in the game. Combine the two and you will find a wonderful civ to play, as many have discovered already. But our discussion here is about 1 trait over another, not combinations.
Let us examine the advantages of each:
Industrious:
2x worker speed
1 extra shield in size 13+ cities
Double-speed workers are, clearly, what this trait is all about. And it is very, very nice. Roads, irrigation and mines go up with shocking speed, at a time where a few roads and mines can really make a difference. Also, as Vel pointed out, aggressive roadbuilding for troop movement is also quickly done. Even the slaves you will soon capture work faster than they normally would.
It is a primarily early game trait, because its real strength lies in developing your basic terrain improvements faster than your neighbors, which allows quick expansion and/or conquest. There are two other, though less important, boost phases: upon the switch out of despotism, when mined hills & mountians are suddenly worthwhile (those take a long time for non-industrious workers to road/mine) and upon the discovery of steam power. Clearly, if you start near a large jungle, Industrious becomes even better.
Religious:
1/2 price temples & cathedrals
1 turn anarchy
This trait is also about speed. But a different kind of speed. Religious civs can get their temples up and running very quickly (30 shields is pretty darn easy to do, especially when 1pop = 20 shields). This means two things: 1) quick border expansion & linkup; and 2) An early cultural advantage. Later on, you save 80 shields per cathedral. That's a lot of shields boys and girls. But just as important is the time you save switching governments. Anarchy for non-religious civs is what, 4 turns minimum? A religious civ can switch government many times with hardly any penalty. I often use a despot -> monarchy -> republic -> democracy government path when playing a religious civ. When playing a non-religious civ... lets just say the 2nd and 4th gov'ts were cut out entirely, and I STILL spent more time in anarchy.
So why do I favor religious over industrious? It's really a combination of factors: Culture, Happiness, and Tech (I'll explain that last one, I promise).
CULTURE: is extremely important in CivIII, and having more culture than your neighbors is a real advantage. Early in the game, the AI is particularly bad at building cultural improvements, so you will often find yourself surrounded by civs who are in awe of you. That's good for diplomacy, but it's GREAT for war. How so? Culture flips quite honestly, are gonna be all in your favor. Further, rushing temples in captured towns is really easy. As a despot or communist, you can either blow 2 pop points (sometimes desirable in a capitol) or wait 10 turns and use 1. With a non-poprush government, you're gonna save a lot of money.
A second part of this, not to be overlooked, is the fact that without culture, a city may only use the immediately surrounding squares. IF (and I know there are many who do not) one builds one's cities with the full 21-square radius in mind, you will be missing out on bonus tiles until you have 10 culture points. Religious civs can quickly expand those border to get at bonus or resource tiles.
HAPPINESS: keeping your people happy is easier too. I've played non-religious civs, and spending 60 shields on (what I consider to be) an esssential building early in the game is BRUTAL. Same thing, to a lesser degree, with mid-game cathedrals (160 shields... you gotta be kiddin' me, right?). Happiness can be crucial. Less need to rely on luxury spending or lux. resource imports, easier to get into WLTKD, which of course reduces waste. A happy civ is a more powerful civ.
TECHNOLOGY: It's simple, really. 4 turns wasted in anarchy is essentially 1 tech lost. In ancient times you're not getting 1 tech in 4 turns, it's true, but later on you're getting them in 4 turns with money to spare, so it evens out. The less time you spend in anarchy, the more you can get done, both in terms of research and city builds. It adds up.
Finally, one point about the speed of industrious workers: while they are nice, cities don't often grow fast enough to outstrip the ability of workers to develop terrain. Cities with lots of floodplains and mountains are the exception here, of course, but by and large, non-industrious workers can do the job. If augmented with large numbers of slaves... the half-speed no longer matters (slaves are free).
Any way you cut it, Civ is about turn advantage. If you can build and learn faster than the enemy, you win. And though Industrious is the obvious "speed" attribute, Religious is actually the Ferrari here.
[Dennis Miller Voice] Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong[/Dennis Miller Voice]
Discuss.
-Arrian
*DISCLAIMER: I play primarily on Monarch, and accept the possibility (though I doubt it) that playing on Diety boosts the relative power of Industriousness*
Why it's good to have God on your side
Religious, IMHO, narrowly beats out Industrious as the #1 trait in the game. Combine the two and you will find a wonderful civ to play, as many have discovered already. But our discussion here is about 1 trait over another, not combinations.
Let us examine the advantages of each:
Industrious:
2x worker speed
1 extra shield in size 13+ cities
Double-speed workers are, clearly, what this trait is all about. And it is very, very nice. Roads, irrigation and mines go up with shocking speed, at a time where a few roads and mines can really make a difference. Also, as Vel pointed out, aggressive roadbuilding for troop movement is also quickly done. Even the slaves you will soon capture work faster than they normally would.
It is a primarily early game trait, because its real strength lies in developing your basic terrain improvements faster than your neighbors, which allows quick expansion and/or conquest. There are two other, though less important, boost phases: upon the switch out of despotism, when mined hills & mountians are suddenly worthwhile (those take a long time for non-industrious workers to road/mine) and upon the discovery of steam power. Clearly, if you start near a large jungle, Industrious becomes even better.
Religious:
1/2 price temples & cathedrals
1 turn anarchy
This trait is also about speed. But a different kind of speed. Religious civs can get their temples up and running very quickly (30 shields is pretty darn easy to do, especially when 1pop = 20 shields). This means two things: 1) quick border expansion & linkup; and 2) An early cultural advantage. Later on, you save 80 shields per cathedral. That's a lot of shields boys and girls. But just as important is the time you save switching governments. Anarchy for non-religious civs is what, 4 turns minimum? A religious civ can switch government many times with hardly any penalty. I often use a despot -> monarchy -> republic -> democracy government path when playing a religious civ. When playing a non-religious civ... lets just say the 2nd and 4th gov'ts were cut out entirely, and I STILL spent more time in anarchy.
So why do I favor religious over industrious? It's really a combination of factors: Culture, Happiness, and Tech (I'll explain that last one, I promise).
CULTURE: is extremely important in CivIII, and having more culture than your neighbors is a real advantage. Early in the game, the AI is particularly bad at building cultural improvements, so you will often find yourself surrounded by civs who are in awe of you. That's good for diplomacy, but it's GREAT for war. How so? Culture flips quite honestly, are gonna be all in your favor. Further, rushing temples in captured towns is really easy. As a despot or communist, you can either blow 2 pop points (sometimes desirable in a capitol) or wait 10 turns and use 1. With a non-poprush government, you're gonna save a lot of money.
A second part of this, not to be overlooked, is the fact that without culture, a city may only use the immediately surrounding squares. IF (and I know there are many who do not) one builds one's cities with the full 21-square radius in mind, you will be missing out on bonus tiles until you have 10 culture points. Religious civs can quickly expand those border to get at bonus or resource tiles.
HAPPINESS: keeping your people happy is easier too. I've played non-religious civs, and spending 60 shields on (what I consider to be) an esssential building early in the game is BRUTAL. Same thing, to a lesser degree, with mid-game cathedrals (160 shields... you gotta be kiddin' me, right?). Happiness can be crucial. Less need to rely on luxury spending or lux. resource imports, easier to get into WLTKD, which of course reduces waste. A happy civ is a more powerful civ.
TECHNOLOGY: It's simple, really. 4 turns wasted in anarchy is essentially 1 tech lost. In ancient times you're not getting 1 tech in 4 turns, it's true, but later on you're getting them in 4 turns with money to spare, so it evens out. The less time you spend in anarchy, the more you can get done, both in terms of research and city builds. It adds up.
Finally, one point about the speed of industrious workers: while they are nice, cities don't often grow fast enough to outstrip the ability of workers to develop terrain. Cities with lots of floodplains and mountains are the exception here, of course, but by and large, non-industrious workers can do the job. If augmented with large numbers of slaves... the half-speed no longer matters (slaves are free).
Any way you cut it, Civ is about turn advantage. If you can build and learn faster than the enemy, you win. And though Industrious is the obvious "speed" attribute, Religious is actually the Ferrari here.
[Dennis Miller Voice] Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong[/Dennis Miller Voice]
Discuss.
-Arrian
A splendid piece!
Comment