How to Dominate with Democracy

[Rust]

I find that I can build up 100 or so armor during a time of peace (everyone else should be fighting). Than advance quickly in technology, being under democracy. Until I'm able to upgrade to modern armor. After this you can buy a right of passage with the civ that closely rivals you in score. Set up 5 of these tanks at each city and blow him away in one or two turns. Build up than repeat on next civ, of course you need more tanks once they get mech infantry. However even after annhilating a civ using ROP, the other civs don't mind giveing you one for very little afterwards.

I think they should charge an outrageous amount or not even give you one at all after playing this trick the first time.

[notyoueither]

What version are you playing?

[Rust]

1.21f, also this is on Monarch level.

[notyoueither]

Hmmm. I'd heard it was impossible to get a ROP after you screw the AI on one. I took it for granted, because I never do such things. Except for once, kind of by mistake...

[Giovanni Wine]

What?
I remembered one time in which I have to declare war on a Civ with who I had a RoP due to my MPP with Greece...
Every civ on earth got so pissed at me, even Greece after a while canceled our MPP and our RoP due to me breaking the RoP with their "Aztec friend".

Are you sure you are playing 1.21f?

Saluti

[Rust]

Yes, I'm sure it's 1.21f. I also think the ai was stickier about it in previous patches but I can't say for sure since I just started this cheesy tactic. Everyone is furious at me, but they continue to let me screw them over and over if I give a luxery or a couple hunderd gold first. Even the same civ will if I take a break in between fighting them off.

[Giovanni Wine]

Uhmm
Seems very strange to me... anyway, I will try to see if it works with my game too...
Any way... this is a big exploit, and I don't think it shoul be allowed

Saluti

[Txurce]

Why wait until modern armor to go for the win? Couldn't you use the same gambit with cavalry?

[Rust]

I don't usually have the tech lead or massive production by than, but if you do, yes it would work the same. My cavalry usually end up fighting riflemen.

[jshelr]

Hope you don't mind me throwing a strategy question in here.

I'm playing on Emperor with a huge map, widely spaced continents, max civs included and have just reached the stage where all the civs have met and traded.

The big elephant is the Zulu on a continent by themselves, lagging by 5 techs as I reseach steam power. I'm number two and, by fighting early and then rushing to Democracy, I have a two tech lead on everyone playing as Bab. Bab is on a continent with Greece, Russia, America -- Germany and Rome are gone.

My question is how to keep the Zulu from trading tech like mad and catching up quickly. I won't be able to outresearch them forever because they are much larger and don't have the defense burden of my crowded continent. They are really far away and I don't see a sea-based attack working until modern armour and flight provide the needed resources. By then, it may be too late.

What would you do??

[Txurce]

There's no reason to assume that the Zulu will gain on your tech lead any faster than the civs on your continent. Just because they're bigger doesn't mean they're solely focused on research, the way you seemingly are. They're probably being a generalist civ like most AI civs are, building a wonder here, a ship there, and so on, and I'd bet anything that you have your science slider set higher than theirs. Kudos for gaining a two-tech lead, and good luck keeping it (you're gunning for the Theory of Evolution, right?), but I wouldn't worry about the Zulus blowing past you.

[jshelr]

Thanks Txurce for the advice. Yup, Theory of Evolution is the best wonder for the buck on the block when you have a tech lead and I am focused in paranoid fashion on tech when the spaceship victory is turned on. The zulu have 8 spice and 4 ivory for sale at the moment. Should be flooded with money when population starts to explode around the globe. I've never liked the zulu's attitude toward peaceful coexistence.

[Theseus]

1. Set all of your cities to building big stuff... e.g., cathedrals, universities, banks, factories. Pick the city where you want to build ToE, and pre-build with the Palace.

2. Declare war on the Zulus by finding an AI civ that will enter into a military alliance with you. Get as many otehr civs in the act as possible. Also, embargo Shaka into the stone age.

3. Mobilize.

4. Research Nationalism, if you haven;t already. As cities complete their non-military buildings, flesh out harbors and what not, and build Riflemen. You can also build Workers (use the 12 pop cities) if you need some extra to quickly railroad your entire empire.

5. Do not attack the Zulus... after about 5-10 turns, try negotiating a peace treaty... don;t worry if Shaka won;t even meet with you at first, he will eventually. Agreeing to peace will take you out of mobilization.

Think geo-politics... the goal here is to align the world against Russia... oops, I mean the Zulus... and get them to drain their resources on a war which you have no intention of actually fighting. Shut thme out of resource and tech trading, and get them focused on things military. As for the side benefit of distracting the others civs... well, they should pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[AIL]

The Zulus are relatively militaristic and stay with a minimum of buildings for a long time... For example I had them with only few cities over 6 the last game while any other civ had much bigger ones... So they probably are no so fast...
What Government do they use? When they switch to democracy I think you can forget what I said since all races try to max their pop after an excessive Worker pumping when entering Democracy...

[Arrian]

Watch out about making peace 10 turns after signing alliances... you will take a big reputation hit. And with a number of AIs on his continent, poor relations aren't a good thing.

Devious plan, Theseus, but it may not be necessary. With a 2 tech lead, if he gets ToE, he should be all set to cruise to a SS launch. He's playing a scientific civ, so he won't lose ground at the Age changeovers, and in order to gain a tech lead he's gotta have a solid economy.

If you really do want to screw with Zulu man, I suggest a variant of Theseus' plan:

Create a taskforce. Enough offensive troops to take 1-2 cities, and a ton of defensive guys, plus bombard units, and a settler. Find a coastal Zulu city with luxuries you don't have. Attack, via the alliances Theseus suggested, capture city. Raze city. Rebuild city with your settler - if possible, build on a luxury tile. Rush harbor. Rush walls. Rush barracks. Rush temple/library. Defend. Hell, you may even get a leader out of it. Hang on for dear life. Hold out for 20 turns and then make peace... even if you have to pay Shaka man some gold for it. You have hurt him, wrecked relations between him and other AIs, and gained a new luxury for yourself.

-Arrian