Game Winning Strategy Question

[Aslan]

I have a very general strategy question.

First off, I love the game....definite quality...even better than my previous fav, "Alpha Centauri". And, it's nice to play this game knowing that it's "current"...in comparison to playing Alpha Centauri where I had to practically hit every mall in the area to find the expansion.

But, my question is this:
Everytime I play with a decent civ (Americans, French, English, Romans, Greeks, etc...), I can usually "win"...but I NEVER can get much more than halfway through the tech tree. For example, there was only 2 games where I got to the point where I could make Infantry...and only 1 game where I could actually build air units. I like winning...but I'm very excited to actually use some of these other units that I can't seem to reach.

My only thought is that maybe it's just that I'm not making enough roads (and therefore not getting enough gold and thus not being able to allocate enough funding to science) or something like that. Could is be that simple? What allocation do some of you "experts" have for science in the game?

Thank You in Advance.

Aslan

P.S. If somebody from Firaxis reads this...please make a game exactly like "Bravheart" (Eidos) EXCEPT...use your expertise to make it actually work. I really loved that game and it's concept...but unfortunately the programmers destroyed it with all kinds of bugs that made the game impossible to play past a certain point.

P.S.S. If the people from Firaxis aren't interested in my above comment...can we someday get a version of Civilization that DOESN'T have that dang "Mandatory Retirement Year"....I guess I just love the game too much to stop playing it!!!

[Coracle]

So your point is that you win and the game ends somehow before you can do such as make Infantry??Why can't you get more than halfway through the tech tree? Either you quit or you get beaten. Why else?

Civ 3 is indeed full of BUGS and other problems. Why it is a big letdown compared to Civ 2. We were all beta testers starting November.

[Harovan]

Welcome to Apolyton, Aslan. Glad that you love the game, most of us do, but some here don't but still post for some reason, as you can see.

How do you win your games, if you can't make it far in tech tree? By conquest, or domination? What difficulty level do you play at? May be it's time to move up, once you win every game?

Generally: Build roads everywhere. Even though it looks ugly, but roads make gold, and gold makes science. Later build railroads in all city radiuses. Build marketplaces, libraries, banks and universities in your core cities (those who are at most half corrupt). Trade advances with the AI civilizations, but be careful, it tries to cheat you in the deals.

[Aslan]

So, what you're saying is...

Okay, by "winning...I mean that at the mandatory retirement year I am getting a score of 380-625 and thereby beating all of the other surviving civs....therefore I am told that I won.

The way I am "not winning" is that I can't seem to advance too far in the tech tree...allthough...neither are any of my opponents.

So, is the reason we are "all" advancing so slowly that I have it on an easy setting?

Another thing you mentioned is that I should build this and that in this city or that city. I usually tend to have cities that all have just about every building built. In other words...every one of my cities ends up with a courthouse, a university, etc... Should I stop doing that? Is the support I need for all of those structures outweighing their collective adavantage? What about Wonders...in most games I am completing 80-90% of the Wonders available (up until the point I am at in the tech tree of course).

Thank Again for your comments. To the players who are dissatisfied for some reason...Why? What in "particular" is wrong with the game? Besides a mandatory retirement year and annoying music...I can't think of one thing wrong with the game. It would be nice, like in Braveheart, if the battles could be in a "3D Mode" where you have more strategic control (like in Gettysburg)...but on the other hand...Bravheart was virtually unplayable with those options so maybe it would just be "too much" for a computer to handle if you added all that stuff. I think the game is awesome...I haven't had one problem with it and I've been playing it now since Christmas.

Aslan

[Dominae]

Try upping the difficulty level you play on. It sounds to me like you're winning very easily on a lower difficulty, where the AI doesn't research tech very well. This has two effects. First, you can't trade with them to advance in techs faster, because you're so much more advanced than they are. Second, you win quickly since your tech lead means your units are better than theirs (for example, your Cavalry are running over their Pikemen).

Also, note that there is a definite problem with the modern age in Civ3: by the time you reach it, the game is usually nearly over. So don't worry if you don't get to fight much with those Stealth Bombers and ICBMs, I've never actually built them either!


Dominae

[Dominae]

Aslan, we appeared to have posted nearly simultaneoulsy. I'll address a few of your questions here.

First, you shoud definitely build almost all improvements in your core cities. If the city is big enough, you will always benefit from most improvements. Always build all commerce, science and happiness improvements; if you have the time there is no reason not to. The only thing to worry about is in what order you want to build them; I usually focus on happiness first, commerce second and science third, although this really depends on which civ I'm playing. Other improvements are a judgement call. For example, building an Airport in all your cities is usually overkill, especially if you have a good railroad network.

Second, remember to build a lot of cities, and build them up with improvements. With 20-25 core cities, you should be able to fly through techs and be well into the modern age before the forced retirement year. Also remember to trade techs with the other civs. Always try to give them anything but your own techs for theirs; this way you'll advance while they're stuck learning everything for themselves.

Third, don't wait until the forced retirement year to win! Get out there and beat up on some of those weaker civs. Through military conquest you'll grow stronger, and consequently have the opportunity to gain techs faster. There is no better way to fuel your overall economy than through war. You might end up winning through Domination (control two-thirds of the entire land mass), or even through conquest (destroy all other civs).

Hope this helps.


Dominae

[Theseus]

I'm a little confused...

Aslan, if you are winning, yet building out your cities, and yet only scoring sub-1000... I just don't get it.

Warlord? Move it on up..

[Harovan]

Well, if you win in 2050AD with score 380..625 and can't make it to the modern age, it sounds a lot like you're playing Chieftain at some small or tiny map. I've won OCC ("win with only one city") with scores like this.

Move up young yedi. You're ready. Do or do not, there is no try. May the force be with you. Try Warlord, or even better Regent. Advances will flow faster, as the AI helps to research (given you trade tech, which you should). Play bigger maps, like standard size. Try to achieve another goal than winning by score. Try to build the spaceship. Try to take over the world. And in the early game: Build cities. Build more cities. As much as you can. Be the biggest fish. Eat the others.

[Solver]

Firstly it's only th Modern Age that Firaxis screwed up (and hopefully will fix later), so it's probably just you. It goes without saying that EVERY square your cities are using MUST be improved somehow. A road, no matter what, if it's Hills or Mountains, a Mine... if Grassland, depends on situation. But roads are the clue early on... +1 commerce does matter, and this is why building a road is the first thing my starting Worker does.

[Harovan]

Nah, Solver, not the modern age is screwed, but the research speed depending from difficulty level. I had at the German Infogrames forum a lot of people whining, that they could not build their beloved UU, because it's 2040 and they just discovered Steel. I told them, that in my current game it's 1255 and I just discovered Industrialization, and am up to join the modern age around the XVI century, which is ways too early. "How?", they screamed. Well, I was playing Monarch and they Chieftain, that was it. I hope this can be fixed, but I doubt that Firaxis will do it, because they test only their favorite level Regent, and leave the different levels... screwed. Sorry Mike+Soren, but that's a point I don't like.

[Jamski]

I'ts not always the case that playing on a higher difficulty level makes the tech go faster, although this often is the case. If you can build enough cities, grab the VERY IMPORTANT science wonders (Great Lib. , Copernicus, and Newtons) you should be ahead in tech by the beginning of the Middle Ages on all but the top two levels. I find that a combination of an early war and massive settler building brings me 4-turn techs from Feudalism onwards in about 0 AD. The later techs require longer to develop, so the key is always to increase how much science you are producing as the game goes on. That means yet more cities, and building librarys and universitys in any cities that are less than totally corrupt. Changing early on to a Republic then Democracy helps A LOT.

Hope that was useful

-Jam

[Aslan]

Well...the consensus is...

...that apparently I should stop playing "Cheiftan".

See, usually I like to play at harder levels rather than win by HUGE amounts... BUT...since I could never reach very far into the tech tree...I figured I wasn't ready to improve my level yet. Also, with some civs (Babylonians and Persions especially) I get slaughtered even on Cheiftan...of course some of that has been due to the computer giving me a dicked up location on some island covered in hills and mountains with no iron...but those the breaks.

Next game I'll try to increase the difficulty level one or two spots. What one of you said regardng "...you can't trade techs with other civs because you're so far ahead of them..." is exactly correct. I tried to plan it so that I would just go down one research "road" and therefore I could trade for all the "little" techs (like Literature, The Republic, Printing Press, etc...) as I go along...but I still end up with every tech by the end of the middle ages and then I can't trade anymore because I'm ahead of everybody else.

Just for reference, right now I'm the Iriquois (I've never been them and wanted to try them) and it's about 1460 and I've only managed a few middle age techs. I got a good starting location and have been doing some "conquesting"...but it looks like I'm still behind in the tech tree. I'm hoping that as I'm able to explore more of the map (when I build the Great Lighthouse or get to Navigation) I will meet some other decent civs and can trade some techs...but we'll see.

Thanks For All Your Help Guys...it's very interesting stuff.

Aslan

[Aslan]

One posiible solution.

Perhaps Firaxis should make a patch that gets rid of the early part of the game "going by faster". I mean, if it would go by "year by year" in B.C. and early A.D.; perhaps (even on Cheiftan) we could get far enough along in the tech tree to make it more realistic (rather than learning Navigation in 1972).

Also, as to "conquering more civs"...I actually usually conquer 0-3 of the civs, and almost always play on a "Large" or "Huge" map...usually with continents or archipalagio (sorry about the spelling).

aslan

[Jamski]

Navigation in 1972.
Man o man....
Don't get me wrong, but there's somthing wrong here. I'm not attaking you, but most people are concerned with it not being "realistic" using nukes in 1500 AD.

Hmmm,

So, just a wild stab Aslan, but it could be that you're doing something basically "wrong" (not that there is right and wrong, its just a game)

I'd be really interested to find out a bit about how you're going at the game. There's loads of guys here who are really helpful (and probably politer than me) So I bet you'd get some great feed back.

We'd like to know...

How many cities you build,
What you build in these cities,
How agressive you are,
What you research first,
How much of your income you spend on tax,
and anything else that you can tell us.

Hope we can help you beat those baddies

-Jam

[Aslan]

Okay...info...

I'll use my "best game"...which was with the English and I ended the game with a score of 625....which was a great deal higher than the other civs I was playing against. The map was either "large" or "huge". Here are the stats you asked for:

# of Cities: Approximately 50

What I build in these cities: Varies...older cities have more than newly conquered ones (of course)...but generally each city has a temple, liabrary, cathedral, university, and colleseum.

Aggressiveness: Varies. In most games, like I said earlier, I end up conquering 0-3 other civs. It mainly depends on how the other civs act towards me. Most of the time I don't really "go after" anybody...but I also rarely give in to them "demanding" stuff and that's usually how a war starts.

What I research first: Varies...depends on what I start with. I usually like to get to Iron Working First so A) I can make swordsman and B) I know where the iron is as I'm setting up settlements. In the middle ages I either go the invention/gunpowder route or the Navigation route depending on my needs (war vs exploration). I then usually go after steam power first....I've never made it to modern yet.

Income on Tax: ??? I took down these numbers...not sure if they are what you're asking for...Income: +909 from cities and +5 from taxmen. Output of Resources: -239 to science, -267 to maintenance, -174 to corruption, and -188 to units.

Anything Else I can tell you: Okay...It's 2014...I'm the English...I think I am a Monarchy...my cultural value is about 48,500, I have around 50 cities, I've conquered the Babylonians and taken a great deal of land from the Germans in an earlier war...but then I needed them so they still exist, My science expenditure is from 30-40%, score is 520, at 30% science expenditure I gain +22 gold per turn...at 40% science expenditure I lose 47 gold per turn, nearest opponent's score is 367, and I am reseraching Steam Power.

Hope that helps...Aslan

Also...after I win, or even if I lose, I usually have the highest literacy rate and own 2-3 of the best 5 cities in the World.