Implications of no ZOC, and advance after attack?

[Miznia]

All in all, what do you think of these changes? It strikes me in particular that "advance after attack" (assuming you win) makes Archers pretty vulnerable to counter-attack.

I wish ZOC still existed, I think... It would be easier to keep AI settlers out of my territory.

What would you prefer to see in Civ4?

Miznia

[Rasputin]

I hope they bring ZOC back makes for defending better.

I also hope they make the advance after a win optional, each battle winner should b easked before advancing

[Willem]

I agree with you about the Archers, it would be nice if they could choose whether to advance or not. With such a weak defence value, they're sitting ducks in the event of a counterattack, and therefore rather useless as an offensive unit. One thing you can do is give them a Bombard strength number, range 0, plus ZoC. This makes them more useful as defensive support, since they get a free shot if a unit enters it's Zone, plus another one if they're attack in their square. It also means they're less of a sitting duck if they're out in the open. I've lost a few good Horsemen that way, especially if the Archer has a terrain defensive bonus.

As for ZoC, I sort of agree. I like the idea that units don't have that ability any longer, but I really wish they would put it back in for Fortresses. That would at least allow us to build some sort of defensive front. As it stands now, they can just go around your front line positions without ever having to attack you there. Maybe if the current ZoC were beefed up, it wouldn't be an issue, but doing only 1 hitpoint of damage, if that, is rather feeble. Especially since it only happens once, regardless of how many units are on the square.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Rasputin
I also hope they make the advance after a win optional, each battle winner should be asked before advancing

That would get annoying very quickly. Make them either always advance, or never, but don't make me have to answer a popup every single time I want to do battle!!

[Willem]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns


That would get annoying very quickly. Make them either always advance, or never, but don't make me have to answer a popup every single time I want to do battle!!

I agree, although it would be nice to see the Archers/Longbowmen made a little bit more useful. As they are now, they're pretty much meaningless IMO. Unless you bring in a defensive unit right behind it, they're pretty much toast in any sort of counterattack. And with that being the case, you're better off building a Swordsman or a mounted unit.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
That would get annoying very quickly. Make them either always advance, or never, but don't make me have to answer a popup every single time I want to do battle!!

Wouldn't require a popup. Just have the combat not take up the movement. It would attack at the beginning of the turn, and then still have one movement point left, to either occupy or stay put. Archers should also have bonuses in rough terrain.

[dunk]

I agree with advance after combat being optional. I like to keep an offensive unit in border cities to attack potential aggressors before they can get me. ie... attack a Cavalry sitting outside my city with a Swordsman for a more even battle than the Cavalry attacking my spearman or hoplite. If advance after attack was an option, then I could leave my offensive unit inside the city, but still capture a city after killing the last army.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by dunk999
I agree with advance after combat being optional. I like to keep an offensive unit in border cities to attack potential aggressors before they can get me. ie... attack a Cavalry sitting outside my city with a Swordsman for a more even battle than the Cavalry attacking my spearman or hoplite. If advance after attack was an option, then I could leave my offensive unit inside the city, but still capture a city after killing the last army.

Sorry, I disagree. I was only referring to archers. If cav are outside the fort taunting your swordsmen, you have to leave the fort to attack them. Archers have ranged attacks.