Underestimating AI alliances

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by randommushroom
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Now who attacks another nation's units can make a difference where mutual protection pacts are concerned. Say, for example, that France has MPPs with Greece and Japan. Now Greece declares war against Japan, but does not attack. France will remain neutral until Japan or Greece makes an attack against the other nation's forces.
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Clarification: "France will remain neutral until Japan or Greece makes an attack or bombardment within the other nation's borders."

[Blaupanzer]

Re: Re: difference between declarin war and attacking.

Originally posted by Unregistered
This post causes me to ask this question: When you ask a civ to remove their troops or declare war, and they chose to declare war, does that declaration of war really count against them? Or me?

Answer: it counts against the declarer. If you attacked them on your soil, you would be the declarer, but not trigger any MPPs. War weariness acts fast if you don't have courthouses, police stations, or the Sufferage Wonder. It accumulates more slowly if you are attacked, but that first hit is a big shocker to cities not covered by the above in a democracy.

[Skanky Burns]

Also, if you were at war previously with a massive war weariness, go to peace for a few turns, and then are back at war again (regardless whether you declared war or were declared against), your war weariness will be instantly back up to the previous war weariness levels.

So either cut your losses and change to a war government (anything other than Democracy or Republic) OR make peace with everyone ASAP and stay at peace.

Or a third choice, suffer extreme war weariness

[Pius Popprasch]

War weariness seems to be related to a certain opponent. The game counts your war years separately for each opponent. And it doesn't matter much who attacked. That is my experience. And the Universal Suffrage wonder has little effect under Democracy(maybe 5? years war for free).

[Willem]

Originally posted by Pius Popprasch
War weariness seems to be related to a certain opponent. The game counts your war years separately for each opponent. And it doesn't matter much who attacked. That is my experience. And the Universal Suffrage wonder has little effect under Democracy(maybe 5? years war for free).

You people remember previous wars with other civs, so if your opponenet has become an ancestral enemy, war weariness is reduced.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Also, if you were at war previously with a massive war weariness, go to peace for a few turns, and then are back at war again (regardless whether you declared war or were declared against), your war weariness will be instantly back up to the previous war weariness levels.

So either cut your losses and change to a war government (anything other than Democracy or Republic) OR make peace with everyone ASAP and stay at peace.

Or a third choice, suffer extreme war weariness

Thanks all, for the replies. Clearly I don't understand all the mechanisms that fuel war-weariness. You've all shown me things I hadn't really considered.

They (the Chinese) did declare war on me, after I asked them for the upteenth time to remove their bloody troops from my soil. (Really, this still remains as one of my biggest bones of contention) So I suppose that counts in my favor.

Other things I can think of that should be helping me out: Universal Sufferage, police stations almost everywhere, the Oracle & the Cure for Cancer.

Some other things: I don't think I'd been at war with them within the twenty turns prior to their declaration of war. I *think* I'd been at peace with pretty much everybody for at least twenty turns prior, but I could be wrong. (I've been playing pretty sporadically over the last couple of months) But I have been at war with them in the past.

Things that probably count against me: We're pretty evenly matched militarily, each with around 100 modern armor & about the same for mech infantry. (And since the bulk of the Chinese Armor has been wandering around in isolated mountainous terrain for the duration, I haven't even been tempted to try to reduce them) I went through a phase of razing their cities after capturing them for several turns, this undoubtedly torqued them off.

Things that I'm not sure about: I've been taking about 5 cities a turn & giving them away to the Japanese. I originally figured that this would count in my favor & force them to the truce table early, but it isn't working out that way. The Japanese were getting creamed by the Americans & were down to about 8 cities when I started this little war. Now they've got 30 some cities again. (& are still at war with the Americans. The two of them have been fighting for quite some time, at least 30 turns, probably more. Not sure why that's dragging on so long either) When the war started the Chinese had a little more than 90 cities and are now they are down to around 30. That alone you'd think would be a red flag forcing them to think about a truce, but...

Anyway, we've been fighting for more than 10, but less than 20 turns. & they still won't see my envoy. The intent of the war was just to take them down a peg & ensure that I'd end up winning the game on score (I've turned all the other victory types off, except for domination I think), not to eliminate them. They seem bent on suicide though.

I must admit that the war-weariness has remained fairly steady since the start. It has only gone up significantly once since the start of this fun. I was afraid that the patch would really increase it (the first one seemed to increase unhappiness anyway) but that hasn't been the case.

Playing as a democracy certainly doesn't help. It's definately not a very useful govt type imo as implemented in civ3. (Unless you're willing to settle for being #3 or less) I'd be better off as a Republic. After the second or third turn, I thought about biting the bullet & switching govs, but it gave me an estimate of eight turns of anarchy & I figured that the war would be over before then. My bad there I suppose, since its now been 15 or so turns.

I wish some of this was better documented somewhere. Anyway, now that I've throughly jacked this thread, thanks again all, for your insight.

Cheers,

The reluctant genocidist.