Underestimating AI alliances

[vee4473]

I must say that the way the AI makes alliances when you attack one of them is astounding...

I had , at least what I thought was a strong civilization, just to the south of the Egyptians. Persia was on an island Southwest of me.

The Persians had oil, and I had none, so I decided to attack to get theirs.

And, I was doing pretty well...until Persia signed an alliance with Egypt.........and then France.

Before I knew it, I had Egyptian units pouring over my borders ...They killed me after a while.

To be honest, I would have had not too much of a problem with Persia if Egypt had not gotten involved.

My point is to make sure you can withstand or repel an attack from any neighbor....regardless of how friendly you are with them before you make your move on another civ. Perhaps make an alliance before your attack..This may seem elementary to some, but it is essential I think.

I made an alliance with China and Greece after the Persia/Egypt alliance....just to make sure the AI didn't get them on their side too!

They were of no help, but at least I kept them from attacking me.



The AI's strongpoint in combat is in the alliances they make with each other.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Better yet if you ally them with you immediately upon starting a war (or just before if you plan to sneak attack). If they have an alliance with you, they aren't going to invade you. Well worth even a very high price if you have strong neighbors.

Once a civ is beaten down, civs that wouldn't join the fray earlier will now do so. They want a portion of the spoils, too!

[Zachriel]

What is strategy?

Civ3 is a strategy game, not a war game.

It doesn't really matter how the combat is designed, or how cities grow, or which buildings to make, or if spearmen occassionally beat tanks. In the long run, the only thing that matters is who will stand with you and who will betray you.

[Skanky Burns]

Easier way to get allies

Sign a MPP (mutual protection pact) with another civ (in this example the Egyptians), preferably before declaring war on someone. Once the MPP is secured, declare war on the third party - in this case the Persians. Then end your turn.

Now on the Persians turn, they will attack you on your soil. This will force Egypt to declare war on Persia (even if they have a MPP with Persia also) and now Persia will be fighting a 2-front war. After you have weathered their first attack wave, counter-attack, knowing that Persia will only be sending half its army towards you now.

And remember, no permanent friends, no permanent enemies.

[Zachriel]

A good way to start a war is with MPP.

Looking at the diplomatic advisor screen, click on your (prospective) enemy's picture. Determine whom he is fighting a war with. Then make an MPP with that civilization. As soon as your enemy attacks that Civ, you will be drawn into the war without a diplomatic penalty.

For instance, you are England neighboring Germany. Germany is at war with Egypt. Make an MPP with Egypt. You will soon be at war with Germany.

[Shadow_Cougar]

Be sure to keep in mind your government type and the effects of the war. Your alliance or MPP will last 20 turns. Making peace before then will hurt your reputation, making later treaties more expensive or impossible.

I like to form an MPP, wait a few turns, then start the war.
It decreases my war weariness (democracy).

[Willem]

I almost always try to form an alliance/MPP with other civs whenever a war breaks out. This also helps in getting the enemy civ to sign a peace treaty as well. If he has to fight on 3 fronts, he's going to be a lot more inclined to negotiate with you. I've had a couple of games where I was able to pretty much get all the other civs on my side, and my enemy would approach me for peace within a few turns of war. Plus it means that I can expect him to send a lot less units my way.

[randommushroom]

I detest MPPs. It seems like almost every time I have ever been in one my partner keeps dragging me into wars. I like to conduct wars on my own terms as much as possible.

As such, if I go to war, I use a sort of San Pellegrino rogue state strategy. I go to the others civs and make alliances, with the aim of making it the whole world versus my enemy. In my latest game, when I saw that England had landed some units on my territory and I demanded their removal, Liz declared war. I immediately went to all the other civs remaining and negotiated an alliance. 15 turns or so later, England, which had been the second leading power after me, was wiped from the map.

This morning, Greece just sneak attacked me. I got America and Rome to ally with me, but couldn't get France to do so, probably because they have an MPP with Greece. So I'm going to see if I can get MPP with France, not attack Greece this coming turn, and let Greece attack my forces. That should draw France into the war on my side, and it'll be the world versus Greece.

The only problem now is that this may lead to a domination victory, when I've been angling to get my first spaceship victory.

So:

1--Make allies, or perhaps better put, make an absence of enemies.

2--Always look to conduct war on your terms as much as possible. Control the game, don't let it control you.

[Dom Pedro II]

The Art of War

It would seem whoever was working on the military system of this game has been studying some of Sun Tzu.

According to him the best thing is to:

1. Attack the enemy's plans
2. Attack the enemy's alliances (in this game it is almost essential)
3. Attack their armies
4. Attack their fortified cities

They are listed in order of importance, and I would say this is fairly accurate to their importance in the game. Of course, the objectives in Civilization is often times capturing those fortified cities, but the system still works.

I translate attacking the enemy's plans to several things:

1. Cutting off supplies. In the Ancient Era, its got to be Iron and Horses. Curse them! There is nothing worse than laying siege to an enemy capital and having those Swordsmen and Horsemen poking at your invasion troops.

2. Destroy enemy roads. Always a plus to slow down an advance of defenders.

3. Set up road blocks to foil AI attempts to move troops through certain paths, which includes putting units on the coast to block invasions by sea.

Anyway, that's the way it seems to me.

[Patience]

Originally posted by randommushroom
I detest MPPs. It seems like almost every time I have ever been in one my partner keeps dragging me into wars. I like to conduct wars on my own terms as much as possible.

Me too. The thing is, more often than not, the AI civs have MPP's with eachother when I want to go to war.
In these cases it is impossible for me to persuade them to an alliance against my target civ.
I usually then give them anything for a MPP, declare war against hte target, do nothing, and then laugh when the AI attacks me, triggering the MPP reaction from the other civ.
If I'm lucky, this will cause a chain-reaction, throwing the world into a world war, for which I am always prepared (would be stupid otherwise, since it was me who started it in the first place)

Ïf I am not able to make these alliance, usually because the russians (curse them!) declares war on me in ancient times, I rather pay the ruskies off, and form an alliance against them later (later as in the moment I can afford to bribe the world)


In my latest game as the greeks(pangea,regent), I started isolated with england between me and the rest of the world.
england bordered to rome and china,and china to russia, russia to france and germany, which both were next to egypt in the other end.

Both the ruskies and romans declared war on me in ancient times before I was ready for battle.
Since none of them were my neighbours, I ignored them until they turned on on my doorstep just outside my weakest city, then I payed them off.

The next time the russians declared war, I got the chinese to join me in an aliance by giving them tech and gold (and my firstborn, IIRC). Luckily, they were best friends with the french, so good old Cathy found herself in a war she could not win.
I forgot all about the russians, as I later engaged myself in a long overdue payback war with the romans.

I may have to alter my playing style, when I eventually step up to monarch, since I do not think, I can expect to be the tech leader there, which was what I used for the aliane with the chinese.

ANyways, my point is: if you do not want to get dragged into MPP wars, then do not sign MPP's.
If you want to start MPP wars, sign them, declare war, and wait until you get attacked on your soil (putting a russian slave worker or a lone warrior on the border sometimes does the trick)
I do not know anything anout rep hits for declaring the war, is there someone who wishes to enlighten me?

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by randommushroom
This morning, Greece just sneak attacked me. I got America and Rome to ally with me, but couldn't get France to do so, probably because they have an MPP with Greece. So I'm going to see if I can get MPP with France, not attack Greece this coming turn, and let Greece attack my forces. That should draw France into the war on my side, and it'll be the world versus Greece. The only problem now is that this may lead to a domination victory, when I've been angling to get my first spaceship victory.

It is easy to avoid a domination victory. Raze the enemy cities you tak and don't refill the area with your settlers. Since domination is based on the total ground space occupied, this process avoids that issue.

[randommushroom]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer


It is easy to avoid a domination victory. Raze the enemy cities you tak and don't refill the area with your settlers. Since domination is based on the total ground space occupied, this process avoids that issue.

That's true, although I've been playing with a self-inflicted rule that I won't raze any cities this game.

[g_storrow]

difference between declarin war and attacking.

I have just been reading this thread. I thought it was just about who declared the war who made the difference. not who made the first attack. So if I ask someone to remove their trops or declare war and they do who declares war.
In this war we have it makes a difference who attacks first as well as who declares war. Does the attacking thing matter if I am attacking on my land or his land or no mans land?

[randommushroom]

Declaring war in a republic or democracy causes war weariness more quickly than if someone declares war against you.

Now who attacks another nation's units can make a difference where mutual protection pacts are concerned. Say, for example, that France has MPPs with Greece and Japan. Now Greece declares war against Japan, but does not attack. France will remain neutral until Japan or Greece makes an attack against the other nation's forces.

In my last game, I did get that MPP with France, though it led to some unintended effects. Greece attacked me, and France declared on my side. But then Joan must have figured this gave her license to take on the rest of the world and she attacked America and Rome. So suddenly my allies were also my enemies. It was the world versus Greece; and Greece, Rome and America at war with France and Japan.

[Unregistered]

Re: difference between declarin war and attacking.

Originally posted by g_storrow
I have just been reading this thread. I thought it was just about who declared the war who made the difference. not who made the first attack. So if I ask someone to remove their trops or declare war and they do who declares war.
In this war we have it makes a difference who attacks first as well as who declares war. Does the attacking thing matter if I am attacking on my land or his land or no mans land?

This post causes me to ask this question: When you ask a civ to remove their troops or declare war, and they chose to declare war, does that declaration of war really count against them? Or me? I ask because my democracy immediately went into severe war-weariness after this happened. I had to put so many citizens on entertainer duty that my income went from about 100/turn to worse than -200/turn. Just ridiculous. My disgust with civIII's democracies continues to rise. (Ok, stopping rant now before I start foaming at the mouth.)

Thanks,