Starting Wars

[Haertgaeden]

I need some strategies for starting wars between other countries - leaving myself uninvolved.

Also, I started a new game today, as the Babylonians. Large map, 7 other opponents. I found myself on a fairly large island - along with seven sources of silk. I got control of the entire island with my nine cities, with the exception of three squares along my southern coast. China came along - why do I always have problems with the Chinese - and established a city right where I didn't want them. I was built up militarily, so I declared war, and since I attacked with four swordsmen and four bowmen, and they only had one spearman for defense, I razed their city and took back my land without any casualties.

However, I keep trying to establish an ROP with Greece. Before my war, I was able to do it. Afterwards, no dice. The Greeks refuse every attempt. I've even tried sweetening the pot a bit for them, with no luck. Since I declared war on the Chinese, am I being ostracized by the AI?

[Bilo]

Attacking other civs without declaring war first and razing cities will damage your reputation. When you have less then perfect reputation other civs will not be willing to sign ROP's with you.

[Aeson]

Sometimes a bad reputation can be a good thing. In a renegotiation of a peace treaty, I can usually bully the AI into signing ROP's or military alliances against whomever I want. Of course this only works once every 20 turns, but thats how long a ROP or military alliance lasts anyways. I couldn't say for sure, but it seems that the more bloodthirsty of a game I've played, the better the deals I get. This may just be because those extra wars are making the AI weaker, and me stronger though. Either way, reputation isn't a big deal in the game unless you're shooting for a diplomatic victory.

As far as I know there is no sure way to passively get the AI involved in a war with each other. The best chance is to give a few closely packed cities away, one to each Civ you want to war, and hope their close proximity to each other creates some friction.

[Nakar Gabab]

Originally posted by Aeson
Sometimes a bad reputation can be a good thing. In a renegotiation of a peace treaty, I can usually bully the AI into signing ROP's or military alliances against whomever I want. Of course this only works once every 20 turns, but thats how long a ROP or military alliance lasts anyways. I couldn't say for sure, but it seems that the more bloodthirsty of a game I've played, the better the deals I get. This may just be because those extra wars are making the AI weaker, and me stronger though. Either way, reputation isn't a big deal in the game unless you're shooting for a diplomatic victory.

Power is more important than reputation. Reputation only seems to affect me when I'm both being a jerk and someone else has a bigger army - if I've got the biggest force on the block, I can be in a state of permanent annoyance and furiousness with everyone else, but they'll do as I say and give me ridiculous deals for peace (And for re-negotiating peace! This is really important! Bully them into giving you things every 20 turns, just to NOT go to war with them!).

Reputation only matters to me when I'm trying to play nice. In that case, I try to be at a state of polite or at least cautious with everyone.

[frankdog]

Plant a spy

I found that trying to plant a spy is a good way to start a war. In my last game my spy planting was caught 3 times. Each time the other CIV declared war on me for it.

[Aeson]

Does a failure at planting a spy affect reputation?

[ktaek]

I just ran across a very interesting war-starting tactic.

I remember reading an earlier post by someone that the AI takes workers into account when determining military strength. He primarily used this as a way to deter war, by building a worker force enough to scare off enemies.

In my latest game i had finshed developing my nation til RR, so i sent all my workers to my captial and traded them all to my nearest neighbor for tech/gold/luxuries. We're talking 24+ workers here.

Well, i guess the AI thought all of a sudden that he had an amazing army, because he declared a suicidal war on me. I outnumbered his cities 3 to 1, i was about get Destroyers on my next tech while he was still using Hoplites and Swordsmen.

In retrospect, sort of a dirty trick, since once i pulverized him i just captured all my workers back (sigh).

[Skanky Burns]

*LOL* ktaek!! Thats a classic!!

Perhaps this will force Soren to make a function that realistically determines ones military strength.

[Flight]

There was a post a while ago with a nice method for this:

Send some settlers to an island and build some simple cities, I guess resources on the island would help too. Then give a city to each AI you want to have a war, they will love you for giving them a city and will fight to get control of the island. Or something to that effect, i may have missed something

[Willem]

Whatever happened to the the "I demand tribute for my patience" line?

All the other civs can make a demand that may or may not lead to war, but I can't do anything of that sort, at least nothing that works. I have yet to have a civ declare war when I make a demand. It would be nice to have some way to goad the other civ into attacking first, but there seems to be very few options for doing so, especially when you are more powerful than they are.

[Ironikinit]

If they have units in your territory, that's the best way. Make demands and offering insulting trades until they get mad and then demand they move their troops. Of course, if you're a lot stronger they tend not to have troops in your territory anyway, most of the time.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
If they have units in your territory, that's the best way. Make demands and offering insulting trades until they get mad and then demand they move their troops. Of course, if you're a lot stronger they tend not to have troops in your territory anyway, most of the time.

But even then, you're starting the war by attacking them. Unless like you say you're stronger so they don't come around anyway. In my current game, I've quite an arsenal poised and ready to attack, but I want them to make the first move. I don't want a bad rep with the other civs. But I really have no way to anger them enough to start a war. Even in the diplomacy screen, if I demand they hand over something or else, they never take the initiative, it's always me that has to declare war.

[Ironikinit]

Hopefully, when you demand that they remove their units from your territory after insulting them until they're furious, they'll declare war.

[ucel]

Originally posted by Aeson
Does a failure at planting a spy affect reputation?

I believe not. You can try unsuccesfully plant a spy even 10 times and if civ was polite to you it remains polite. Although if the civ was annoyed or furious first attempt may end with war .

[Patience]

Originally posted by Willem
Whatever happened to the the "I demand tribute for my patience" line?

All the other civs can make a demand that may or may not lead to war, but I can't do anything of that sort, at least nothing that works. I have yet to have a civ declare war when I make a demand. It would be nice to have some way to goad the other civ into attacking first, but there seems to be very few options for doing so, especially when you are more powerful than they are.

When you propose a trade, try only asking for goods (gold, tech, cities, whatever). Without offering anything in return, you are demanding tribute.
You can easily get the AI to become furious with you doing this, although I have never been able to goad it into war this way (although I have made several outrageous offers

Perhaps demanding their troops withdraw would get you the last bit of way, have to try that out the next time.