Paratroopers?

[Combat Ingrid]

I'm currently playing Marla's world map (awesome!) as the French, reaching the end of the industrial period.
I will soon (~20 turns) get a cultural win and decided to wipe out the sneak-attacking Egyptian bastards immediately after before I quit the game. They control most of the northern half of Africa as well as the arabian peninsula and a few cities at Ural mountains (bordering to my cities).

I'm currently building up a huge army of Battleships, bombers, carriers (to take bombers around africa so I can bomb them from all directions) and tanks. I will also develop marines (in 5 turns) to raze their coastal cities in the first turn of warfare

Now I'm thinking whether to develop paratroopers. They can drop "within operational range", but how far is that? I have not found any information about that, although I have probably missed something obvious somewhere...
If the range is good, it seems like a good idea to get them to quickly reach the non-coastal cities after bombing them to stone-age

Any input? I don't want to waste those 4 turns researching them when mech.inf. is just around the corner, so testing is not an option

[Willem]

Re: Paratroopers?

Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
I'm currently playing Marla's world map (awesome!) as the French, reaching the end of the industrial period.
I will soon (~20 turns) get a cultural win and decided to wipe out the sneak-attacking Egyptian bastards immediately after before I quit the game. They control most of the northern half of Africa as well as the arabian peninsula and a few cities at Ural mountains (bordering to my cities).

I'm currently building up a huge army of Battleships, bombers, carriers (to take bombers around africa so I can bomb them from all directions) and tanks. I will also develop marines (in 5 turns) to raze their coastal cities in the first turn of warfare

Now I'm thinking whether to develop paratroopers. They can drop "within operational range", but how far is that? I have not found any information about that, although I have probably missed something obvious somewhere...
If the range is good, it seems like a good idea to get them to quickly reach the non-coastal cities after bombing them to stone-age

Any input? I don't want to waste those 4 turns researching them when mech.inf. is just around the corner, so testing is not an option

Look in your editor, it will have the numbers you're looking for.

[Combat Ingrid]

lol, never thought about that

Thx for telling me what should be obvious, now I know it's only 4 (hoped it was 8), seems to be more worthwile building tanks and marines instead

[Willem]

Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
lol, never thought about that

Thx for telling me what should be obvious, now I know it's only 4 (hoped it was 8), seems to be more worthwile building tanks and marines instead

Or you could just change the numbers.

[bogatir]

I wouldn't waste the time to research tech for Paratroopers if you haven't already done it.

In addition to their short range, you'll find your Paratroopers are a fairly snoozy bunch -- they can't attack on the turn they drop. Argh.

[Willem]

Originally posted by bogatir
I wouldn't waste the time to research tech for Paratroopers if you haven't already done it.

In addition to their short range, you'll find your Paratroopers are a fairly snoozy bunch -- they can't attack on the turn they drop. Argh.

And what's wrong with that? A real life paratrooper has some definite time constraints when deployed. First of all he's dangling in mid air for quite some time, a sitting duck all the while. Then when he does touch ground he has to free himself from his harness, ready his weapon, then find some sort of defensive position for the almost inevitable counterattack. After all, you can see a paratrooper in the air for miles around. It's probably one of the most dangerous roles to play in any offensive. Have you ever heard of Operation Market Garden? Those guys were slaughtered. It's a wonder any of them got out alive.

[Hydey]

they are good for cutting lines of supply , drop them behind a blocking city and destroy roads/rail preventing reinforcments from getting through.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Hydey
they are good for cutting lines of supply , drop them behind a blocking city and destroy roads/rail preventing reinforcments from getting through.

Which is exactly what they're used for in real life. They're not meant to be used as an assault group, they're to vulnerable. They're mainly used as support, primarily in areas where the chance of a counterattack is minimal. Other wise they'd all be dead before they even set foot on the ground.

However, I think with a range of 4 they're not much use as is. I think 6 at least would be more reasonable. Or even the same range as a Bomber, whatever that is.

[bogatir]

Hey, if I've got a bunch of guys on the payroll who spend most of their days running around yelling "hooah!" and getting in fistfights with the combat engineers, then by golly they're going to fight when I drop them somewhere.

Aside from that, I understand all of the arguments about why they don't attack on the turn they drop. Doesn't bother me a bit. I just wouldn't waste four or five turns going down a dead-end tech to get them if I wanted to gear-up to stomp some other civ. I hardly ever research the tech to get paratroopers when Modern Armor is just around the corner.

The part about the paratroopers dangling in the harness is pretty good, though. Especially considering the turns are one or two years. That's a lot of dangling.

Hooah.

[Willem]

Originally posted by bogatir
Hey, if I've got a bunch of guys on the payroll who spend most of their days running around yelling "hooah!" and getting in fistfights with the combat engineers, then by golly they're going to fight when I drop them somewhere.

Their purpose in real life campaigns is not to hit the ground running and attack anything that moves. If that's your only use for them, then I'm not surprised that you're not satisfied with their performance. If you start looking at their role more strategically, you might find that they are very valuable. In any military campaign, paratroopers have never been used all that much due to their vulnernability. But when they have been used effectively (sorry but I can't think of any specifics) they've been very useful to the overall battle. They are a special tactics unit, not meant for a
frontal assault. In reality, they're lucky to even get their feet on the ground. If use them as such, you might find them very worthwhile.

[bogatir]

Yep, yep. All of that right in line with how paratroops have been used historically. None of which suits my less-than-subtle approach to solving sticky territorial issues with the AI.

Some folks build paratroops and drop them around to mess up the enemy. I just build a bunch of fast, shooty units and smoosh that sucker flat. Either way works, that’s the beauty of the game.

Cheers.

[Willem]

Originally posted by bogatir
Yep, yep. All of that right in line with how paratroops have been used historically. None of which suits my less-than-subtle approach to solving sticky territorial issues with the AI.

Some folks build paratroops and drop them around to mess up the enemy. I just build a bunch of fast, shooty units and smoosh that sucker flat. Either way works, that’s the beauty of the game.

Cheers.

Yeah well, it's just a matter of preference. I get more satisfaction if I can use some tricky manovuere, rather than shoving 20-30 tank units down his throat.

[Aeson]

I think allowing marines to attack directly out of helicopters would be a good idea. Paratroopers should be carried by bombers, I don't recall any real life instances of helicopters being used in this capacity. Maybe planes that are shot down should have a chance of becoming paratroopers

But when they have been used effectively (sorry but I can't think of any specifics) they've been very useful to the overall battle.

Ah, the Dirty Dozen, Air Force One... but movies don't count. The worth of Paratroopers is the fact that they can strike behind enemy lines, not that they do. The threat of these types of attacks keep defenses from concentrating soley on their borders.

[Dodgy Geezer]

The problem with Paratroops in Civ3 is that their reason for being is made redundant by railways and no bridges.

IN WW2 I believe they were used as decoys - to draw away troops from the front, and to capture and hold key bridges, although for the latter they did go in gliders if I remember my war films correctly.

Since CIV3 does not have choke points that are away from the sea, their use is pretty redundant.

Now if they were to change the rules so that you couldn't RR mountains, that might change.

[Kc7mxo]

A range of 4 is barely enough to get them out of YOUR country, let alone into anyone elses. Paratroopers are, barring extremly unsual circumstances, utterly worthless.

Marines on the other hand are a somewhat overlooked unit. With a large fleet of battleships and bombers, marines can be used to steadily annilate any coastal city and put only the single marine unit that succesffully captures the city at risk.