Strategy Gurus -- Help me please

[Hakeem928]

Ok, I haven't played any Civ2 for years and I just got my copy of Civ3. A lot is familiar but it seems a lot has changed as well. So as a result, I have some questions to ask.

My playing style tends toward building up a small empire and focusing on defence and research (primarily). It used to be quite viable in Civ2, as I remember.

I was wondering what Civ would be the best choice for someone who plays this way? What techs and wonders do you consider "must-haves" early in the game?

I also have a problem getting started out. I'm sure you'd agree that the first 50 - 100 turns are probably the most important ones in the game. What is the best way to start? Should I build any improvements in my cities, or focus mainly on units? What units and improvements, in your experience, are the most effective in the early game?

Any other advice you could offer me is also welcome. I look forward to reading any and all replies!

[Dienstag]

If you like research and defense, I suggest you try playing as the Greeks. They have the Scientific civ trait (cheaper science buildings/free tech each new age), and their civ-specific unit is the defensive Hoplite.

If I understand your style of play (something like "claim reasonable amount of land peacefully, try to get a tech lead, and then much later find some way to win"?) I'd recommend using the generic start strategy that's been posted ad infinitum: "explorer, defender, settler, another unit, temple..." or something similar. Remember to settle the low food producing areas last, since they may have very hard times making more settlers. When you are comfortable with your civ's size, start switching to city improvements: temples and libraries (must research Literature!) and a barracks or 2 or defensive units. Be aware that the AI will settle every square inch that you don't, and also be ready to defend against sudden declarations of war.

I suggest working mainly on buildings with a few high production cities with barracks building most of the units when possible. In many governments you get a certain number of free units. Check the defense advisor and have at least that many if possible, stationed at your borders or protecting resources. A good road network can let mobile units (horsemen) become almost instant reiforements anywhere, so don't forget to build at least a worker per city.

Early "must-haves"? In my opinion you'll want libraries (science and culture, WOOHOO!), and temples. In cities with moderate corruption, courthouses are very beneficial. And marketplaces have both an economic and a happiness effect (assuming you have access to multiple kinds of luxories). As for wonders, the Great Library and the Pyramids are the most popular, but also the hardest to get. Either make a serious effort or don't bother. I've never had much trouble building the Colossos, usually in a city I intend to make my "super science city" (must be coastal for Colossos. If you are really serious about playing defensively, build the Great Wall (increases effect of city walls which you still have to build. Techwise, you'll probably want to go for Republic fairly soon, to.

Hope this helps.

[Aeson]

The best defense is a good offense. You don't have to use it, but the AI seems less agressive if you have 40 horsemen/swordsmen compared to if you have 40 spearmen. Roads don't help movement in foreign territory, for you or the AI. So Horsemen playing homeland defense are very effective, getting up to 6 moves per turn to the 2 movement of invaders. Having 1 or 2 defenders per city, plus a good sized force for counter attacks is important. Also bombardment units get a free shot when the square they are in is being attacked, putting them in cities is a good idea.

The Greeks would be a good choice for your playstyle, along with the Babylonians (Scientific, Religious) and Persians (Scientific, Industrious). Babylonians get cheap temples and libraries, while Persians get cheap libraries and fast workers. Expansion is key in the early game, and if you want to do it peacefully, that means lots of settlers. Usually it is better to forgo early wonders in favor of more cities, as building the Pyramids, Great Library, Oracle, Collosus, or Great Lighthouse will cut your expansion rate by about 1/3 to 1/2. The best build pattern will be dictated by terrain, but timing a settler to be built as soon as size 3 is reached (can be size 2 on Cheiftain I think) is optimum.


Some of the more noteworthy differences between Civ 2 and 3..

Corruption is a big factor for large empires now. Distance from your palace (forbidden palace) counts, along with the number of cities you have. Going over the optimum number of cities for a given map size will mean that any new cities will have almost complete corruption.

Wonders are only able to be rushed with great leaders. Trying to switch to a wonder after having rushed a smaller improvement doesn't work.

The AI judges military power on number of units, not their A/D ratings. Often the AI will attack if they have more units, even if its 50 Ancient era units to your 20 Mech Infantry. Warfare is much more common in Civ 3. Try to keep your total number of military above what rival Civ's have. They will be less likely to attack, and give better deals in trade.

The AI agressively trades techs among themselves to try and stay close. Usually it is better to just sell your techs to the AI yourself. Keeping a 1 or 2 tech lead before by selling outdated techs is usually possible though.

In military engagements, hitpoints are determined only by experience level (conscript - elite). The lack of firepower leads to the occasional Civ 1 "invincible spearman" type of outcomes. Because of this, mobile troops (with the ability to retreat if they are losing) are even more useful.

Also the use of bombardment units is changed considerably. They can only damage other units and improvements, not kill. They cannot be hurt when attacking though, and so are still quite effective. Also they are captured instead of killed when attacked.

Resources (Luxury, Strategic) are a big part of the game. Most important units require a strategic resource, and happiness is greatly affected by the number of luxuries you can get ahold of. Claiming resources is an important part of city placement, and can lead to cities being founded in very unlikely spots. This is a good reason to claim deserts/jungle/tundra/mountains, as many of the important resources appear on those tiles later in the game.

[Arrian]

On civ choice, I'd say the Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians or Greeks. Expand fast and grab the best city sites you can (and try to snag 3 different types of luxury - more is even better), and then let the AI keep settling far away, poor terrain city sites while you build up your infrastructure. Do build some units, though, as the AI will attack you if you're weak. Oh, get the v. 1.16 patch if you don't already have it.

Dienstag and Aeson have already given you a bunch to mull over, so I won't further complicate things. Once you've played the game for a while, look up "Vel's Stategy Thread, part III" It starts with a synopsis of some of the best strategy advice/info from parts I and II. Part IV may be on the way soon. It's a novel at this point, growing toward a tome.

-Arrian

[Willem]

Re: Strategy Gurus -- Help me please

Originally posted by Hakeem928

Any other advice you could offer me is also welcome. I look forward to reading any and all replies!

Expand, expand, expand. If you double the expansion levels you used to use in Civ II you will probably be able to keep up to the AI.

[vmxa1]

Small point, but arty types can be destroyed when attacked, if the attacker does not have the tech to use them, they will then not be captured.

[pchang]

How about planes?

Can planes be captured? I have never captured planes and my planes have always been destroyed. On the other hand, I am always in the tech lead by that point so I'm not sure if the AIs ever had the required tech.

[Willem]

Re: How about planes?

Originally posted by pchang
Can planes be captured? I have never captured planes and my planes have always been destroyed. On the other hand, I am always in the tech lead by that point so I'm not sure if the AIs ever had the required tech.

I believe that only 0 defence/attack units can be captured, like Workers. Besides, how are you supposed to capture a plane that's flying in the air? I'm sure Indiana Jones could find a way, but realisticaly it would be impossible.

[vmxa1]

Bombardment unit can be cannon/catapults and artillary. Those may be captured. Planes and ships are destroyed when in a city that is overrun.

[Sharkyy]

In reply to Aesan:

I would suspect that the AI's deference to someone with "40 horsemen/swordsmen" as opposed to someone with "40 spearmen" is because of a couple of things:

(1) Horsemen/swordsmen are more expensive in shields, and AI *might* calculate your strength based on the cost of your military in gold/shields.

(2) Swordsmen are like spearmen with 3x the attack- thus objectively as powerful or more powerful in every catagory.