AI cheats and strategies to counter them

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by vmxa1
The use of "active" to check trade status requires contact, this should not be. We should be able to check on our own trades with out contacting the AI. A busines would look at its own auditors or contracts, not call the other company to get this type of data. Since they info on contact screen does not require any special gathering, it should be available on my trade advisor screen without contact. I want to know if they have any money before I waste time contacting them.

Agreed, we should be able to check on our own trades (and treaties) without having to make contact (and especially without having to trip the "offer" button). I disagree that we should know how much money they have without contact (a spy in place, definitely; an embassy, maybe).

[Willem]

Originally posted by macaskil
I've never seen this "cheat" - last night I was in a tech lead throughout and every time I researched a new one I hawked it round the other civs in the same turn with no problem.

Maybe it's something to do with "autosave". Although I have this box checked I don't know how to use it... can someone explain?

There's nothing to use really. If the box is checked, the game will automatically save your opening position, than save the game every turn after that as well, up to a certain limit. Just hit Ctrl-L , I believe, and open up the Auto folder and have a look.

[ShuShu]

This bug bugs me...

There seems to be a problem with a lot of Civ III users. A segment of the Firaxis user community was not equipped with sufficient emotional routines to cope with a silicon chip becoming more adaptable than they are. Firaxis must dumb down its AI immediately because doing what the humans do is cheating, and is a crime against humanity.

Although I repeatedly tech broker a tech during an AIs turn, it is completely unnacceptable that it can do the same to me. What's worse, Darth Sidious's immediate response to the first post explains how a modicom of common sense on my part would allow me to continue to exploit the AI. That is beyond the pale. I should not have to think! Firaxis, fix this NOW!

Also, what business do you have enabling the AI to protect itself from me by keeping me from building my tanks. I want my oil and I want it now! How am I going to tank rush these AI's if they won't give me their oil so that I can do it?

[Aeson]

Re: This bug bugs me...

Originally posted by ShuShu
Although I repeatedly tech broker a tech during an AIs turn, it is completely unnacceptable that it can do the same to me.

I didn't know that this was possible, how do you make trades during the AI's turn? I don't complain about when the AI trades on my turn, I just send in the Calvary to administer a reprimand. The AI never learns from its "mistakes" though. The problem with the AI trading on a players turn isn't that it makes the game harder, just that it further enhances the effectiveness of military action in relation to peaceful diplomacy.

The AI definitely should have the right to trade its spare resources to whomever they would like. This shouldn't be considered a bug.

[Willem]

Oh moderator, we definitely need some smilies for our posts that clearly show the use of sarcasm.

[vmxa1]

Willem, the reason I said we ought to know the money is if I make contact I can see it, with or without a SPY or Embassy. All I am saying is if it is given by opening the trade, then give it without opening the trade, saves time and clicks. Maybe they wanted to make it harder to keep those who would check each CIV each turn, not sure. Anyway the data is not a secret, such as the troops, that requires a SPY.

[Harovan]

Re: Re: This bug bugs me...

Originally posted by Aeson
The AI definitely should have the right to trade its spare resources to whomever they would like. This shouldn't be considered a bug.

Right, but it would be really cool to have some kind of World market for resources/luxuries, with prices based on offer and demand. If you offer more than another civilization, you should get the deal, unless there's an embargo against you...

Just dreaming again...

[ShuShu]

Replies

how do you make trades during the AI's turn

Aeson: When the AI decides to extort more money out of me for those blasted furs, or demand my world map, or similar things. I seem to recall trading with others before ending my conversation with the first. But now I am having doubts... Its one thing to be sarcastic, its another to be wrong....

Willem:


Sir Ralph: If the other nationality has extra resources you ARE the highest bidder. And since the AI is not trading with you, you ARE embargoed... Wish granted.

Whoever, way back when: The extra resources you saw in the AI's city were likely from a golden age. Even an AI deserves a Golden Age every now and then.

[Willem]

Re: Replies

Originally posted by ShuShu

Willem:

Well I have to admit, I find it rather amusing when things go flying over people's heads.

[Psycho_Mantis]

I figure that the AI can probably see all the strategic resources from the beginning, but doesnt put the ones it doesnt need in priority until the time comes.

Or perhaps it just build EVERYWHERE is possibly can...

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Psycho_Mantis
Or perhaps it just build EVERYWHERE is possibly can...

Correct. It's a strategy every human player should consider, as well.

[ShuShu]

Correction

When the AI decides to extort more money out of me for those blasted furs, or demand my world map, or similar things. I seem to recall trading with others before ending my conversation with the first.

It turns out I cannot tech broker during the AI's turn. I have a tendency to do everything with all players on the same turn. So as each contacted me on the same turn I would broker with them.

As a result, I would agree that the AI should not broker during my turn, however, they should be more adept at brokering on theirs...

I stand correctly chastized.

[bsklepzig]

Originally posted by Zachriel


Correct. It's a strategy every human player should consider, as well.

I don't believe it's as simple as the AI getting lucky with massive settling efforts:
* Playing the huge earth map that shipped with the game, but only 8 total civs, there's a lot of unclaimed land. It's the 1950's now, but the top half of Asia is still sparsely populated. From industrial times, Eqypt had this odd row of three cities at least 10 squares removed from the rest of their empire. When the Aluminum tech (Rocketry, right?) came available to the various civs (myself and Egypt included) ... sonofagun if there wasn't a can of aluminum exactly one square due west of the city square for each city.
* Same game, France was based in North America. They largely ignored Alaska. The cities they did place had oil in the city square or directly adjacent once refining came available (I got refining first ...)
* Large map, pangea. While at war with France, I fought battles over control of one square of rubber. I'd kick them off, they'd kick me off and fortify, etc. until I got a settler up there to build a city I could defend (& quickly sign peace). I was the only one with the rubber tech (I think Replaceable Parts).

Each of these instances had AI cities/defensive efforts that were away from or unique from their other settlements/activities.

Side note:
I haven't known if constantly opening trades to check on what the AI has (tech/$$$/resources) to offer (so I can find the likely highest bidder and work down) bugs them or not. I do it often enough that if it does bug them, I could ramp to annoyed pretty quickly. I've gotten in the habit of making frequent, petty "good will gifts." I usually give terriatory maps or 1 or 2 gold lump sum. I get one of 5 or 6 generic phrases of thanks (i.e. "this will do much to bring our peoples together") and they stay polite. It has been suggested elsewhere (Vel's thread?) that this style of gift-giving can affect their long-term assessment of you as a potential trading partner, affecting many AI behaviors.

Oh, and this is all pre-patch.

Ben

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by bsklepzig
I don't believe it's as simple as the AI getting lucky with massive settling efforts:

The effect is not noticeable on a crowded map, which is how I usually play.

Just assume you'll always have to play the ever popular, "Capture the Oil Fields" scenario.

[pchang]

So that's it then

After 3 pages, we only have 2 confirmed cheats (AI tech trading during your turn and AI knows your unit disposition), and 1 possible cheat (AI knows where resources are before they have the tech). The possible cheat does not appear to be a real one. One would think that the AI would build out its road network so that the "new" resources would automatically be included when they appear, but this is not the case.