AI Govt and War analysation

[Ninot]

In my most recent game, in the mid-industrial age, i have noted two things. With the advent of Communism, all but 3 civs are Communist (excluded are Germany, Rome (myself) and USA). Germany and Rome are Democracies, and the United states, down to a single city due to extensive war with the Iroquouis and Aztechs, are a monarchy.

BEFORE everyone figured out the tricks of Communism, everyone, with Rome exlcuded (i wanted to make some war) was Democratic.

Now, i don't know if the history of my world has to do with the almost completely Communistic world i play in, but heres how it went...

The Anarchy (soon to be the Communism) of Rome, declares war on their pathetic neighbors to the north, the Democracy of England. Germany out of nowhere decide they want a peace of the Brits to, and their democratic peoples vote for war agains the english. Russia's democracy joins too. Greece's Democracy joins too, Egypt's Democracy joins too. England falls very quickly.

On the other continent (there are two), the Iroquois savagely destroy half of the USA, and the Aztechs destroy the other half. USA is left with Phoenix as its capital, and nothing else.

Now there is an uneasy peace for a small period of time. This is broken when Rome becomes fed up of the Russians to the north. Germany is asked to join the party this time. So the Communism of Rome and the Democracy of Germany are dividing up Russia, untill they get halfway through and trench warfare breaks out with Russia's discovery of infantry.

By this time, Rome is in its slow march back to Democracy, Russia is sprialing down into Communism, and War has broken out with Greece Vs. Egypt+Babylon. Aztechs, Iroquois, Greece and Babylon all start their march to Communism. USA converts to Monarchy (smart or coincidence? Communism isnt exactly to the benefit of a 1 city empire... is there a reason they choose monarchy isntead?)

The last time i played this game, the countries were all in the governments i stated at the top, and war is begining almost at random between many of the countries. the Iroquois are in a LONG distance war against Egypt. Greece attacked Rome's mutual defence partner, Babylon ( a second time, a second war)
And Germany is making demands of Rome. Babylon had a very short war with the USA, taking the USA's last city.

Now, what could be the reasoning for all these changes in government, and drastic change from 5000 years of complete peace, to war cuz it looks fun? Rome's sudden agression towards England and Russia, acoompanied by the Iroquois suprise attack on Cleveland? Why did the USA suddenly move towards Monarchy when they had what could be considered better govenrments available? Germany (a country that was warring almost as much as anyone else) is the only AI nation NOT to turn away from democracy at all.

Could anyone join me to theorize WHY the AI could be so queer in its declarations of war, and choice of governments?

[pcasey]

I don't know if its some hidden resource seeking code, or just a brute force programming hack, but in my experience your relations with the world start to deteriorate dramatically in the industrial age.

Example:

I can run the entire game and never trade with or deal with the Aztecs. We're polite a the beginning of the industrial age.

10 turns later, we're cautious.
10 more and we're hostile.

There may be more too it, but I'm inclined to think the game just plain artificailly reduces all international relations once the industrial era sets in in order to *induce* a world war because that's what the programmers thought was fun.

As I said, there may be more too it than a simple relations tax, but the behavior is 100% repeatable. Relationships between nations remain steady until the industrial era, even if you do nothing at all.

Once the industrial era hits, relations start to deteriorate across the board.

[narmox]

once nationalism hits and MPPs are signed, that's when the AI just itches to start a war with anyone.

I _have_ seen a few games however where the world wasn't plunged into a world war as soon as nationalism hit the scene. Usually those were the games where I was the one who ended up starting the world war

So it doesn't always happens, but it often happens. I'd rather wish war were more evenly spread out over history... I don't mind there being more wars in the industrial age/modern (wasn't the 20th century "the century of warfare"?), but not constant world wars that last 300 years... And certainly not after 5000 years of peace.

Oh well.

In one of my latest games, here's how a world war was avoided (until I started it):

During the ancient and middle ages, I had become the most powerful nation on earth. I had MPP with my 2 neighbours. No one dared attack me, and only 2 other nations trusted each other enough to have an MPP. No one dared attack my neighbours either cause they had MPP with me. So that was pretty cool...

You just have to choose your MPP's prudently. I think that's the key... Haven't completely figured it out yet... But based on what I just described... Well, I'll figure it out someday. But it's not just a switch that says "once industrial age hits, start world wars every 2 turns" thing..

[Jaybe]

Check out the Editor (v. 1.16f)

If you examine the Editor (post patch), you will notice under the civ attributes the favored government and the 'avoid' government of the individual civs.

Other than that, I suppose it's all a matter of unhappiness and production management. Luxuries often get lost in war.

Sometimes, after I am through playing for the night and have saved the game, I will investigate some cities to see how the different civs are doing. Especially if I am anxious about a major wonder I am building. Gives a little insight as to how their resources, government, and ... are.

BTW, is there a way to see what government they are using without using espionage?

[Nakar Gabab]

I'm not sure I see what the problem is. I've never been involved in a war-pattern that permeated every game. I've had some world wars, but in games where I just flat-out refuse MPPs, I can generally avoid wars. The AI seems not to want to start a big war if you're not in on it. Anyone else noticed the tendency of your allies to sign peace treaties with enemies you're no longer fighting? It seems a little cheap to me...

[CampedCrusader]

Re: Check out the Editor (v. 1.16f)

Originally posted by Jaybe

BTW, is there a way to see what government they are using without using espionage?

As far as I know it is stated for example in the MA . In the Army Comparison screen the game notes
"The Army of the " i.e. American Democracy.

I dunno if you need a spy or an empassy to get this listed i haven't got that far into the game by now....

[Matthevv]

In my current game I have noticed a tendency of the AI Civs to gang up on one Civ. First it was the Chinese, then the Zulus (Zululand is now a multi-coloured patchwork quilt), then the Persians (what I left of them). Now it is the French that just about all the other Civs are at war with. I haven't noticed that it is related to any particular era of the game though, they seem to pick on any weak Civ. One starts, and signs up an ally, who signs up an ally, and so on. They don't seem to sign up allies for defending themselves though, or maybe the weakness that triggers the declaration of war in the first place means that they can't afford one.

[MarshalN]

I think it's mostly just the MPPs. Right now I have no MPPs with anyone because I dont' wanna get in a war, and I'm almost hitting modern era and there's still no world war yet. I've just been beating up the Japanese and going to do that to the Persians later though hehehe

The Indians, who are my culturally strong neighbours, wanted a MPP. I refused. The weird thing is, all of a sudden, they declared war on me out of the blue. I wanted to see what would happen otherwise.... so I reloaded, and they didn't declare war when I did the exact same thing. Strange? I dunno.

[narmox]

Re: Check out the Editor (v. 1.16f)

Originally posted by Jaybe

If you examine the Editor (post patch), you will notice under the civ attributes the favored government and the 'avoid' government of the individual civs.

Pre-patch too AFAIK this option was there

Still, I find it weird.. I believe Russia has Democracy in its Shunned gov, yet all civs (except me it seems, I'm still at Republic) in my latest game are at Democracy. Maybe cause Russia doesn't have communism yet, I haven't checked. But if they still stick to democracy after they have their favored gov, well.... Something's wrong here.

[Blaupanzer]

The "shunned" and "favored" government types refer to how that civ reacts to OTHER nations, not which government they themselves will be in. For example, the Russians will like you better if you are a Commie, like you less if you are in a democracy, and react neutrally to any other government type. At least, that is how it's explained. So don't be surprised if the Russians stay in Democracy if they are not at war. This is also a possible explanation of why some nations become increasingly hostile to you even though you are not in contact.

[American Guy]

Don't forget in the editor theres also the aggresion level of each civ. So i guess this determines who will start wars more often. If you played a game with all high aggresion levels for each civ i wouldn't be suprised if a word war broke out. About it happening in the industrial age... well i think the competition is driving the AI's paranoid and they want to get rid of it.