Five City Challenge

[ToeTruck]

Now that more and more players are winning under Deity, I thought it might be fun to try a couple of challenge games.

OCC wins have been reported at all levels, but many folks find the idea of being limited to only one city way too restrictive and even (dare I say) . . . just plain boring.

On one of the OCC threads, solo suggested an excellent compromise: the Five City Challenge. Allowing five cities means you can build all of the small wonders except the Forbidden Palace (you shouldn't need it, anyhow, right?).

Here are the game parameters for this challenge:

Level - Deity
World Size - Standard
Barbarians - Raging

Everything else is random:

Player Civ
Rivals
Land Mass and Water Coverage
Climate
Temperature
Age

The one catch is that this is that this is a SPACE RACE only game.

Some folks might not like that, but hopefully, this is the first of many challenges. I, myself, would love a Cultural or Diplomatic challenge game, but thought the "tried and true" would be a good way to start.

Also, I would love to develop a formal set of rules, but right now there's only one:

Rule 1) You may never, ever own more than five cities. If you conquer a city that would be your 6th, you must raze it. If you gain city #6 through cultural assimilation, you must rebuff the rebels. And, of course, you cannot found a 6th city.

Whereas Rule 1 is enforceable through the replay feature, there are additional guidelines I'd like to see people follow:

Guideline 1) Please don't reload if things don't go your way. No one can stop you, but please be honest when you post your log. By all means, have fun, but tell us what you did.

Guideline 2) I'd like to see everyone play under the first patch Version 1.16f, but I know that cannot be guaranteed. Please include your patch level with your log.

Guideline 3) Please do not use any known "mega-cheats". The only one I can think of right now is the "1,000,000 gold / turn" bug in 1.07f.

Whoever posts the earliest launch date by Jan 2nd (that's three weeks from now) is the official winner. Besides the satisfaction of doing something really cool, I don't know what I can offer.

I've attached the saved game in a zip file. Have fun.

Thanks. Please comment if you'd like.

- TT

[Skanky Burns]

Good idea, sounds like fun

::downloading::

[Ineffablebob]

I like this idea. I've played a Civ3 OCC (Monarch level) and the worst part is the lack of resources. With 5 cities, it should be possible to spread out enough to get a decent spread.

[solo]

Of course I'm in.

A final guideline I would like to adopt is that we avoid controversies about the rules and refrain from those interminable, profitless, immature and sometimes self-righteous arguments about what is cheating and what isn't. Let's just make it a fun competition, only using rules we know we can enforce. The main focus will be to develop and compare strategies that work best for FCC.

TT,

One minor note about the Forbidden Palace, is that it is allowed with 5 cities on a tiny map, so we may try other games on tiny maps in order to use this feature. Another point is that armies are now possible, since 4 cities are needed to support one, if I am not mistaken. Also, no more looking for that "ideal" OCC starting location with 5 cities to work with. Any random start should do.

[gnomos]

I'm confused, you say everything else is random, but you attached a save game, what is the purpose of that?

[ToeTruck]

Comparison Game

gnomos,

It's a comparison game. I just wanted everyone to know what parameters I used when I created the game. The attached save game was the first one that popped out.

- TT

[Foxglove]

Thanks TT, gonna give this one a go over the weekend.

Laters

--
Foxglove
--

[Padmewan]

I think a slight bending of the city-raze rule might allow for some more flexibility. How about, if you capture a city, you have to give it back the next turn?

[MarshalN]

Problem with that is -- the AI doesn't always want to buy it back, and that way you can infinitely exploit the "I take the city and then sell it and take it back" tactic. Razing takes out all the gray areas.

[H Tower]

Originally posted by MarshalN
Problem with that is -- the AI doesn't always want to buy it back, and that way you can infinitely exploit the "I take the city and then sell it and take it back" tactic. Razing takes out all the gray areas.

with civ2, they didn't even allow you to capture cities, isn't razing breaking the original idea of OCC, or even five CC?

[gnomos]

Originally posted by H Tower


with civ2, they didn't even allow you to capture cities, isn't razing breaking the original idea of OCC, or even five CC?

Actually, in civ2 when you conquer a city it's size is reduced by one, and there is no risk of reversion. If you conquer a size 1 city it's eliminated. I'm not sure any more, but in civ2 I don't think you get the option to just raze it?

[drenasu]

Tiny Board 5CC

I was bored this morning so I tried a 5CC on a tiny board. Not what you guys had standardized on, but I prefer tiny boards, so that's what I did. I won the space race in 1425. I stayed out of war the whole game, and the AI only had one war the entire game (I think, anyway). It kind of sucked because I never got any wonders, and no battles, so no golden age. Oh well. Anyway, it's something to bench mark with.

I attached the save game in case anyone is interested.

Good luck guys!

[photar74]

This sounds great--better than the second tournament! I do reserve the right to save/reload if I by a unit to the wrong space by accident, however. Although I never save/reload for anything else (battles, huts, etc), I refuse to allow the game degenerate into an arcade game. Think of that what you will.

What are the guidelines on cities coming over to your culture? Are you allowed to keep them for one turn and sell them back, or must you never have more than five cities?

[solo]

photar74 and others about the 5 city limit,

If you capture by culture, but do not have 5 cities yet, you can keep the city if you want it, otherwise you must refuse it by not installing a new governor.

Selling a city after the patch is not a certainty, so if you already have 5 cities and conquer another, you must raze. Less than 5 cities and it's up to you what you do with it. I believe that after the patch, conquering a size 1 city razes it automatically.

Another minor point is that if you already have 5 cities, you must save your game before opening a hut, as in CivII, to keep from getting and having to keep an advanced tribe. Advanced tribes can be kept if you have 4 or less cities.

The 5 city limit does NOT keep you from purposely starving to death or trying to sell an unwanted city to bring you back down to 4. Once back at 4 or less cities, any way of acquiring another is okay.

As in CivII comparison games, having everyone use the same start makes for more meaningful comparisons, i.e. seeing who can launch earliest with the exact same start. The 1425 launch by drenasu is quite impressive. If you saved that start, it might be fun for all of the rest of of to try that one in a future comparison game.

solo

[ChrisShaffer]

While I'm impressed by the early spaceship launch, I don't think a 5 city challenge on a tiny map is anywhere near as hard as a 5 city challenge on a standard or larger map. On a tiny map, your opponents won't be much larger than 5, perhaps 10, cities themselves. On a huge map with a large landmass, you might be facing an opponent with 50 cities!

You don't need to save before opening a hut. There are no advanced tribes in Civ3 -- only free settlers, which can be returned to your home cities and used to increase population.