Reputation hit?

[Th0mas]

Just a quick question:

If I cancel a millitary alliance with a Civ against a third Party (from within the Diplomatic Screen), when we are still all at War will I get a Reputation hit.

Basically I am at War with the Indians with the help of the backward Chinese. I have been steadily taking Indian cities. No problem.

Until my expeditionary force reaches Lahor (sp?). I had been pounding the city with cannons for a number of turns and just as I was about to storm the city walls....The cheeky chinese rush the city and take it from under my nose..

So I still want to take the remaining Indian Cities, however Lahor is a key strategic city on a choke point between the old Indian and Chinese Civs.

So I wish to cancel my alliance, declare war on the chinese, re-take lahor, make peace with the chinese and then capture the remaining indian cities.

[Bad Ax]

Reputation won't be the problem for you in this instance. Your rep will take a little hit, but what's going to cause you more trouble will be the way the Chinese react, which will probably be to become furious. Apparently, you're not too afraid of your plucky Chinese brothers in arms, but they probably won't be too inclined to make peace with you after you cancel an alliance early and then attack them. That means you'll be fighting two wars: not impossible but a pain in the ass.

A better strategy would be to negotiate ROP with the Chinese, stack a bunch of your units outside Lahore, then wait until the Indians take it back. Then smash the Indians and grab it for yourself. Alternately, you could let the Chinese and Indians duke it out for a while and build up your forces in the region. When the twenty turns on the alliance are up, cancel it peacefully (give the Chinese a meaningless gift like gold or a useless tech to soften the blow), then attack the Chinese the next turn. With the intervening time to build up your forces, the double war won't be so bad.

[Th0mas]

I am significantly advanced compared to the Chinese and Indians. In fact with regard to the Indians it is only a mopping up exercise.

The location of Lahore coupled with proximity of the bulk of my forces (10 Cavalry, 8 Musket men, 8 cannon) would conviently contain the Chinese agression (swordsmen mostly).

I have no problem taking on China and India, but I am concerned about a reputation hit with the other civilisations.

What I want to know is if I cancel a pact before attacking does that lessern the rep hit or does cancelling a pact within it's 20 turn limit always hit your reputation irrispective of whether you attack the ex-alliance member or not.

I believe attacking a civ you currently have an alliance with is an absolute no no with regard to your international rep.

[Bad Ax]

Cancelling the alliance before its term is up (by making peace with the Indians) will adversely affect your reputation. Attacking your ally before you cancel the alliance will damage it even more. On the other hand, cancelling the alliance after the 20 turns and then rolling over the Chinese in a tide of blood will probably not damage your reputation at all. Reputation doesn't seem to be as powerful in this game as in CivII, though...

[Sevorak]

Reputation seems to be agreement specific, not universal, in Civ III.

So if you prematurely cancel your alliance with the Chinese and attack them, no one will ever sign a military alliance with you ever again, but they'll be only be slightly affected (if at all) with respect to signing MPP's, trade embargos, RoPs, etc. If you cancel your alliance by making peace with the Indians, it is less likely that anyone will sign military alliance with you, but not a sure yes or no.

Peace is the only agreement exempt from this: since peace is now the default state (instead of "contact" as per Civ 2) they will be more than happy to make peace regardless of how many you break, unless you're losing badly (in which case they'll still be happy to make peace, but will request a pile of goodies on the side).

-Sev

[Th0mas]

Thanks Bad Ax and Sevorak

Quoted from Sevorak
So if you prematurely cancel your alliance with the Chinese and attack them, no one will ever sign a military alliance with you ever again

Interestingly, the next turn I ended up cancelling my millitary alliance with the Chinese against the Indians, through the diplomatic screen.

I noticed, having done so, that the Chinese were now NOT at war with the Indians. This I think is odd concidering they captured one of india's cities.

[Magician]

Re: Thanks Bad Ax and Sevorak

Originally posted by Th0mas


Interestingly, the next turn I ended up cancelling my millitary alliance with the Chinese against the Indians, through the diplomatic screen.

I noticed, having done so, that the Chinese were now NOT at war with the Indians. This I think is odd concidering they captured one of india's cities.

are u in the ancient/middle age? sth like this occur quite often in this two age.

In my game the american and france sign an alliance against me. after 2 turns I bribe the american to sign a peace tready AND a military alliance against the france...

[Magician]

forget to mention I have razed and captured two american city before the alliance against the France..

[Th0mas]

Yes I am in the middle ages

But what was strange was that my action of cancelling the millitary Alliance with China, also pulled China out of the war with India. Bare in mind that this was still my turn and I hadn't left the diploscreen.