War Weariness??

[andypalmer]

I was playing Chieftain level. The year was around 1800 or so. My Civ was a democracy (the Romans). The Egyptians, whom I have been trading with very early in the game (they are right next to me), suddenly declare war. Ok, didn't wish for a war but will fight it out anyway. Within 4-5 turns my cities are revolting, 76% of the population asking for peace. Well...try to contact Egypt to ask for peace, but the would not talk. So...can't make peace..can't produce anything...what are the options?? Change gov type?? Why so much war weariness so quickly when I was attacked?? Seems like there is not much to do to win here is there?


andy

[rah]

THis is why i always choose religious. Drop into communism, kick their butt, and change back. A killer if you have to sit in anachy for too many turns. (unless you can kick some butt in those turns and make them negotiate before you have to select a new government.)

RAH
I've changed governments over a dozen times in my current game. But since it's the late game and I'm just trashing capitals to destroy space ships, Communism is the way to go.

[andypalmer]

Yes..I did do that and it works. Seems strange that you would have to change your gov't if you are attacked because your Democracy can't fight back.

andy

[MarshalN]

You're the dictator anyway, democracy or not. I mean, you never face elections, never risk getting voted out.... what kind of democracy is that????

So change all you want

[andypalmer]

Yes that is true. I thought there were advantages/disadvantages to each gov type though. Such as increased research under democracy or increased production. Seems like the game is forcing you into a gov type, and if it is, then why have them at all?? Something just seems wrong when you are attacked, your cities revolt in a few turns, you must change gov hoping you can survive the anarchy. If that is the way it is then OK, just gotta play that way I suppose.


andy

[MarshalN]

I think it's sort of unfair how you can't even talk to the people you're warring with while your people are in revolt. Sometimes it can bring down an empire just by completely halting production (and if you're not religious, you might be stuck in anarchy for 6-7 turns). I think for democracy at least, it should be possible to negotiate peace after a turn or two -- otherwise there's an inherent imbalance that doesn't seem to work. Democracy is supposed to discourage you to war, but if they just declare on you for no reason (which happens), it can ruin your game.

[andypalmer]

Yes..it was kinda strange that my people were syaing 'Give peace a chance' but I had no way of contacting the civ I was fighting...go figure..


andy

[Egoist]

andy: You could try increasing your entertainment spending to get your cities out of civil disorder. This will enable you to restart production in all cities and actually defend yourself from the Egyptians. If you are successful on the battlefield dear Cleopatra will be more then willing to speak to you . Or at the very least she will show you more respect when your military power increases and she might even consider talking to you. Another method to quickly boost your overall happiness is to start importing more luxuries from neutral or allied civs. Your citizens don't seem to care much about war if you get them silk dresses and precious gems, go figure. A prolonged war under democracy is difficult to fight so dropping into communism would be better in that case. When in a democracy you just have to prevent those wars from happening.

cheers

[shayovitz]

I have been at war with the Persians for a few turns now (10-12 turns) under democracy, a war which I started by the way, but since I have 30-40 percent luxuries (I had to cut down on the profit making a bit), I can manage with 0 cities revolting.
I guess that is the way to go, entertain them and they let you fight your wars.
BTW, how do you see the "sue for peace" thingy ? Where can you see the reason for the people's unhappiness ?

[mr.buddylee]

I've fought wars under democracy where they went for over 20 turns without any problems. Usually, I lose We Love the King Day, and then not too long after everything is a mess, but I've found that if my people are happy. (Lots of luxuries and a 10% entertainment budget), they put up with war for quite a while. If it goes too long, I just switch to communism, but I only have to do that if the war is really dragging on. I also build the Suffrage wonder and that seems to help too.

I play on the second easiest level, whichever that is, and I would imagine, if I went up a level, I'd have more problems.

[Bad Ax]

Police stations and Universal Suffrage are your very best friends in a Democracy. Build Police in all your cities as soon as they are available, and Suffrage as soon as you have the chance. Without them, fighting an extended war under democracy is virtually impossible. This is, of course, ridiculous (we all remember the great street demonstrations against WWII and Korea, don't we?), but it seems the Firaxis people based their war weariness engine only on Vietnam.

If you're a democracy, it's also a good idea to build up your military (even though it's costly) in order to prevent people from attacking you. Never underestimate the power of deterrence.

[andypalmer]

Maybe the luxeries are the key. Unfortuantly, I was trading fur and gems with egypt, then they declare war, and no more luxeries unless I find someone to trade them real quick. Guess that is what you must do. Also unfortuantly I didn't have communism, so I had to revert to monarchy (I figured republic would cause same war weariness..)...by the time i came out of anarchy much of my civ improvments had been destriyed..oh well..
guess i better be better prepared..


andy

[mr.buddylee]

Also unfortuantly I didn't have communism, so I had to revert to monarchy (I figured republic would cause same war weariness..)...by the time i came out of anarchy much of my civ improvments had been destriyed..oh well..

eek! Well, thats why I choose religious civs. Much easier to switch govs.
live and learn I guess.

[sachmo71]

Originally posted by mr.buddylee
I've fought wars under democracy where they went for over 20 turns without any problems. Usually, I lose We Love the King Day, and then not too long after everything is a mess, but I've found that if my people are happy. (Lots of luxuries and a 10% entertainment budget), they put up with war for quite a while. If it goes too long, I just switch to communism, but I only have to do that if the war is really dragging on. I also build the Suffrage wonder and that seems to help too.

I play on the second easiest level, whichever that is, and I would imagine, if I went up a level, I'd have more problems.

Yes, you can conduct an long war at Settler level. It does get harder at the next level...much harder.

[lucifer316]

i see alot of threads with people complaing about wars and democracy

there are a few problems that i see

first why do you feel the need to use the government if its for the bonuses you cant complain about the drawbacks it has i mean if they made democracy have the best possible options in every case there would be no need for any of the other governments at all

you need to pick a government that matches your gameplay style and vice versa also you have to be ready for the curves the game is going to throw your way

just because you have a democracy doesnt mean that the other civs have to refrain from attacking you

if you want democracy to be the end all be all then modify the game so all the stats are the way you want them but under despotism then rename despotism democracy and not only will you have the govenrment you want you can start the game with it


the other problem is that too many people believe that democracy is based totally on america well if you belive that to be the case can you explain how it gets the lowest corruption rating of all government out there because last time i checked america isnt exactly squeeky clean in the corruption department i think that because of this and the war weariness that democracy is actually closer to a socialist democracy then it is a capitalist democracy

in a capitalist democracy you would have high corruption and low war weariness (lots of money to be made building war units)

whereas in a socialist democracy the corruption is lower because people have what they need and there is no money to be made building war units thus the high war weariness

each government is given pros and cons to make them useful for different styles of gameplay and because of that it would be easier to just look at them as gov a gov b gov c etc

the names more or less allow it to fit cleaner in the tech research and stuff plus most people would laugh at a game that named the governments with just letters