Picking the right Civ!

[eMarkM]

With an AI that spreads so quickly borders get set pretty early. Often the only way to expand is to conquer a neighboring civ. So part of my strategy is to take out one of the weaker civs that borders me early in the game.

Doing this generally gives you the largest empire and far more options to win in the end. It means you need a good offensive unit in ancient times. And that means Persia. Nothing beats an Immortal rush! It's unstoppable.

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[nato]

I have been thinking about the extra shield and extra commerce of the industrious and commercial bonuses. I believe you get 1 extra shield/commerce at size 6 and another extra at size 12, for a total of two.

For shields I think this is often going to be useless. Building things is not gradual ... it is either done or not. Any extra shields above what was needed are lost. Therefore, the only time that one or two extra shield bonus will help is if it lets you finish something exactly one turn faster. So usually that will be irrelevant.

I know the faster workers are more important, but it is interesting if the shield bonus is most often plain lost. If you don't like playing lumber games, it makes industrious seem less great.

The commercial bonus however is not lost. It just keeps getting added to your treasury turn after turn. If you have 25 good cities, and they each get two extra coins for say 200 game turns, that adds up to like 5000 gold. Some of this comes awful late though ... too late to be useful. Still it is not lost and adds up pretty nice.

[kcbob]

This thread is so intriguing.

From my perspective, I pre-ordered the game and it was a week late in arriving. Then I try to load it and my PC chokes and pukes. I order another PC just for Civ III (even though I swear to my wife that it's not) and it's still another 2-4 days away from arrival. In the meantime, as another poster mentioned, everyone has their own opinions and they are all different!

When I finally get this game loaded and am totally immersed in my first game, I think I'll discover what you all are alluding to... Civ III is a game for all to enjoy!

[Daveman]

So far I'm loving the Greeks more than any other Civ out there, at least as a builder-type player.

The combined effects of Scientific and Commercial seem pretty impressive to me, if for no other reason than most buildings are half-price. Half-price Libraries, Universities, Marketplaces, and Banks are the bulk of what I need in early-to-mid games, providing plenty of science, gold, and culture. I thought Temples would be my first-build in most cities but I've gone with Libraries. They're cheap, boost research, and provide culture... happiness isn't usually a problem right away so Temples can wait a bit.

Hoplites are phenomenal. They're cheap, I can build them right away, and they require no resources. The only better defenders are Musketmen, and they're pretty far into the game. Those units that are equal to Hoplites in defense come into play fairly late in the ancient era (Pikemen), are civ-specific (Legions), and/or are more offensive (Knights, Samurai) and noticeably more expensive. If you're a gambler, their attack of 1 isn't even all that bad at the time as most other units have a defense of 1. Keep a Hoplite along with any ancient-era attacker and he'll provide excellent cover, especially for any fast-movers who need to retreat.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Dissident
So stop telling me the french are the best!!!

From what I've read, the French are for those players that like to "turtle" until they have a significant advantage, and then conquer.

My first city rush-builds a temple and then 4 offensive units.

It's like that General in Dr. Strangelove: "Kill! Kill! Kill!"

[FrostyBoy]

It makes sense, if you watch the AI play as the French, you'll notice that 9/10 games they will become power houses, I can't say that for any other civ yet..

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Sn00py
It makes sense, if you watch the AI play as the French, you'll notice that 9/10 games they will become power houses, I can't say that for any other civ yet..

I can honestly say I have never seen the French become a power house in any game I've played yet. Usually the strongest AIs are the ones that have had the good fortune to start far, far away from my civ.

Turtle soup doesn't taste so bad, you know.

[gamma]

French are the best, eh? In my second game, I played the Zulu. The French were the first civ I saw. Whereas I was the last civ the French saw.

(I fenced them off to a four-city region in a tundra-covered peninsula for the rest of the game.)

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by Sikander
I have been playing India recently, and I like the religious attribute.

I tried India as well myself this weekend, and on Huge/16/Regent had a very good victory. I personally prefer to avoid anarchy, in a large civ anarchy can cost you thousands in lost productivity, and I found their war elephants to be even more useful than I expected.

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by Sikander
I have been playing India recently, and I like the religious attribute.

I tried India as well myself this weekend, and on Huge/16/Regent had a very good victory. I personally prefer to avoid anarchy, in a large civ anarchy can cost you thousands in lost productivity, and I found their war elephants to be even more useful than I expected.

[Blaupanzer]

Ray, what AI have you been playing. They showed up in stacks of 12 to 16 regularly at my cities (after razing the other AI cities in between) in late ancient and early feudal times. I was forced to form a few stacks of my own, slug it out with them, and crush some of their cities (governing not razing) to get them to stop. This is on Regent.

As the AI goes military, religious civs are really dangerous once they get going. (I think this is, in part, a bit of a joke on the Civ 2 players, where the Aztecs were usually a pushover, and now are very dangerous if left alone for long.) I think the Babs are best. The cheap buildings, free techs (I've not gotten one outside of the new era in three games now [no Amphibious Warfare type bonus].), and 2-2 archers for the price of 1-2 spearmen are all significant advantages. The 1 turn of anarchy is very useful if you are trying to stay in Democracy, but your neighbors keep forcing you into war. Flip to Commie, conscript your defense, use your vets to smash the fools, go back to Democracy. Only two lost turns, plus a few turns in Communism (less science, lower happiness rate, cheaper army), no thinking involved. Haven't tried industrious or commercial. Haven't noticed an AI civ with either do particularly well, although the Brits seem to stick around. This could change. In three games the French have appeared twice and the Germans have appeared twice and both were exterminated both times. The Aztecs have been in two and were my number one competitor in both. Other powers have not registered although Russians got big, England dominated a continent, and the Japanese and Chinese got big enough to drag the whole world into their war.

Seem to be rambling. Try the Babs, you might be surprised. It's not a wargame, it's Civilization!

[MadWombat]

At this point, I've completed 5 games.

1st: Chieftan, Chinese, Domination victory.
I liked the Chinese rider, but wasn't all that fussed about their abilities.

2nd: Regent, French, Diplomatic Victory
The French were quite easy to play with. I didn't do that well this game because I had no source of iron, and my neighbours did. I ended up having to wait for Chivalry before making serious gains. The French Musketeer is totally useless.

3rd: Regent, Russians, Space Ship Victory
On this one, I landed in a large open space, with a choke separating me from England and Germany, the Babylonians to my West, and the French to my SW, cut off by a choke point. I managed to get both choke points, and out-expand the other civs.

4th: Monarch, Romans, Cultural Victory
I went with a rapid early military style this time. Wiped out the English starting position (they moved elsewhere), knocked the Iroquois down to 2 cities (they eventually built a few more), and took a couple of American cities to boot. Conclusion: Legionaries are great. They really make the Romans worthwhile.

5th: Monarch, Aztecs, Killing Everyone Else Victory
I thought that Jaguar warriors would be useless, but boy was I wrong. I went for a massive early military game, and basically overran more of my continent than I could efficiently use. Those Jaguar warriors only stopped when I ran up against the Zulu with Impi. This game convinced me that militaristic is quite useless. In the entire game (which I played very aggressively), I managed to get only 3 leaders; my average is 4. On the other hand, I discovered the true value of Religious. Not only is it very useful to be able to get cheap cultural improvements, but the lack of anarchy is a VERY powerful advantage. Starting in the late Middle-Ages, I was at war frequently. War under Democracy is... difficult. Communism on the other hand, is your friend. I tended to declare war on whoever had the most technology I wanted. After smacking 3 or 4 of their cities, they're usually quite willing to hand them over, along with significant other bonuses (cash). being able to use forced labour is a huge advantage, and being able to switch back to democracy fast at the end of your wars is too.

My next game will be at Emperor difficulty level, so we'll see how it turns out. I'm thinking Industrious/Religious. I REALLY like those fast workers, and the cheap population control and no anarchy bonus are big.

[Thunderfire]

My ranking:

Good:

Religious:Cheap temples are nice and important during the early land grab. 1 turn anarchy is excellent because 4+ missed turns will hurt alot - especially if you loose some buildings.

Industrious: Fast workers are also very important for early expansion. Those extra shields are just a bonus.

Ok:

Comercial: Excellent late game trait with reduced corruption and extra comerce. But it is not so usefull during the land grab phase.

Expansionist: Good early game trait. I never got bad huts with an expansionist civ and the early granery will help me to pump out settlers
fast.

Bad:

Scientific: Cheaper sciene buildings are nice and the extra tech sound
good but ... Comercial civ will have more money for research, religious
civs loose less turns to anarchy and industrious civ have a better
infrastructure. It must be combined with one of these attributes.

Militaristic: totally useless. I haven't noticed much of a difference between militaristic and non militaristic civs. This one needs an improvement. Something like warlord in MoM/MOO would be good.

[Thunderfire]

My ranking:

Good:

Religious:Cheap temples are nice and important during the early land grab. 1 turn anarchy is excellent because 4+ missed turns will hurt alot - especially if you loose some buildings.

Industrious: Fast workers are also very important for early expansion. Those extra shields are just a bonus.

Ok:

Comercial: Excellent late game trait with reduced corruption and extra comerce. But it is not so usefull during the land grab phase.

Expansionist: Good early game trait. I never got bad huts with an expansionist civ and the early granery will help me to pump out settlers
fast.

Bad:

Scientific: Cheaper sciene buildings are nice and the extra tech sound
good but ... Comercial civ will have more money for research, religious
civs loose less turns to anarchy and industrious civ have a better
infrastructure. It must be combined with one of these attributes.

Militaristic: totally useless. I haven't noticed much of a difference between militaristic and non militaristic civs. This one needs an improvement. Something like warlord in MoM/MOO would be good.

[uh Clem]

Militaristic: totally useless. I haven't noticed much of a difference between militaristic and non militaristic civs. This one needs an improvement.

Don't know if it's the levels I play on or what, but the Romans, Germans, and Chinese almost never bother me, especially if I start trading resources with them.