How to use Privateer effectively?

[Risa]

When privateers come into play, the only ship that has a defense lower than privateer's attack is privateer itself. All other ships, including backward caravels, have a defense at least 2. That is, without bombardments, it will cost the lost of at least 1 privateer to take out 1 enemy ship on average. And privateer itself hasn't offensive bombardment.

Is there a good way to use them? Or privateers are just useless?

[gunkulator]

I vote for useless. Who on earth wants to build an expensive non-transport, non-bombard attack=1 sea unit outside of the ancient era?

[ThaddeusAlexander]

Just buy conquests where privateers have attack of 2 so can thrash on galleons and frigates ... not to mention a R-0 bombard value of 3 (lord knows we all like to attack a privateer).

Their usefullness improves greatly in MP too ...

[Arrian]

How to use Privateer effectively?

In packs.

In Conquests, the zero-range bombard thing will help you a bit on defense if you have a stack of privateers. Having a stack of them means that you will be able to finish the job if your first attack fails. You may be able to replenish losses via the enslavement ability.

True, privateers are going to lose as often as they win. But they're not supposed to be awesome combat units. Their purpose is to hamper your opponents' shipping without actually going to war. If you don't think that's a worthwhile goal, then privateers aren't going to be worth much to you.

One other privateer quirk: if a civ with a ship UU kills a privateer with said UU, their GA is triggered. Just something to be aware of.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

I never used this, but others liked it:

make one and use it as a lure. Have stronger ships in the tile to handle the combat. They claim that the AI will see the privateer and come a running. I don't know if this is true or not.

[ThaddeusAlexander]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I never used this, but others liked it:

make one and use it as a lure. Have stronger ships in the tile to handle the combat. They claim that the AI will see the privateer and come a running. I don't know if this is true or not.

as in, to force a war? that would be interesting ... but doesn't seem like something they'd build in to the AI

Also I don't get this "expensive" thing with privateers that people still yap about ... when playing the comp you tend to see a lot of galleys and early ships roaming around that are quite easy targets for privateers and upon winning, there's that wonderful chance to spawn another privateer. Not sure the % but it happens quite often in my games ... great if you want to create a blockade for sea trade or even to just keep a ship close to enemy coastal cities to spy on troop movement, etc without getting yelled at to withdraw from their territory.

[Risa]

With defense 1, I don't think privateers can hold up when being attacked, even with defensive bombardment. And when AI has spare attack ship, the age of privateer has ended already.

I had tried to use privateer in packs of 3 ships, and only target I have hope to sink is backward AI's lone caravel or galleon. Strong AIs' ships always move in stacks (2 to 3 frigates and a galleon), I can do nothing to those stacks with privateers.

Hampering opponent without war sounds good, but, IMO, is not actually good. If I'm stronger than him and I'm currently out of war, why wouldn't I devote those shields into direct attack force and declare war on him? If I'm stronger but I'm in another war, I would still devote shields to direct attack force to speed up current war, then declare a new war on him. If I'm not stronger than him, I'd better build up my defensive and counter attack force. In any situation, I don't like waste shields to those can-do-nothing-but-be-destroyed privateers.

IMO, privateers should get beefed up or it's pretty useless.

[East Street Trader]

I saw a post which said that enemy ships target privateers and tried the idea of including one in a stack (with vanilla Civ3).

I don't think the plan was to trigger a war without being the aggressor, rather it was to fool the enemy into making attacks which they would be bound to lose.

Anyway it did not work for me. No enemy ships made a bee line for the stack including the privateer.

That idea not seeming to work, the privateer went back to being a unit I have found no use for.

I tend not to build frigates either - the window before the advent of more powerful ships being rather narrow. In game playing terms it would make more sense for them to be up-gradeable (at least to ironclad if not on to destroyer).

Maybe it stretches the imagination to think of the transformations required. But no more so than to go from a galley to a galleon to a transport!

[Thoth]

Originally posted by Arrian


One other privateer quirk: if a civ with a ship UU kills a privateer with said UU, their GA is triggered. Just something to be aware of.

-Arrian

Thank you for that information. The English have become one of my favourite civs in C3C, so it's likely going to be relevant in one of my near future games.

[Avaron]

quite a good use of them is to stick 1 or 2 on the same square as a frigate.... that way they cant be attacked

[Nor Me]

They don't seem to be attacked when you stack them with other units except for the submarine (in Conquests, that is).

I've used a submarine and privateer to start a war but I'm not sure I shouldn't feel bad about it.

[planetfall]

Some comments about privateers. These may be familar to some, but most new players will be surprised by privateers.

A. They are designed to be minor pieces to add some variety to the game.
They are not given values to represent their actual RL threat. They are intentionally given too weak Offensive power.

B. AI will always go after them if they are in range.

C. If you win, you do destroy the piece and don't start a war, BUT you do increase negative opinion of AI vs you.

D. New with C3C is enslave
So if you win, often you will gain a new regular privateer. This helps adjust the cost of using these ships.

E. Once you start attacking with privateers, AI will start stacking and trying to stay just out of your range for weak ships.


F. Suggestions on how to play with them:
1. use a stack of 3+
2. have a protecting vessel, i.e. frigate
3. expect to just harrass and not control seas with them
4. use to harrass an AI at war with a "friend" you want to help but not join in MA versus AI.

G. Suggested adjustment of values in Editor to have more fun with them. Naval vessel settings:
[i] Vessel A.D.M B.R.F [i]
Galley 1.1.3 0.0.0 no change
Caravel 1.2.3 0.0.0 no change
Galleon 1.2.4 0.0.0 no change
Frigate 4.3.4 2.1.2 changed, defaults are 2.2.4 2.1.2
Ironclad 5.5.4 4.1.2 changed. Defaults are 4.4.4 4.1.2
Privateer 3.2.5 1.1.1 changed. Defaults are 2.1.3 0.0.0
Man-o-War 5.3.4 3.1.2 changed. Defaults are 3.2.4 3.1.2
Sub 8.6.3 0.0.0 changed. Defaults are 8.4.3 0.0.0
NSub 12.6.4 0.0.0 changed. Defaults are 6.4.3 0.0.0

They are weakened Frigates and should be able to beat most caravels and since have less armor, should go faster than Frigates. Subs had to be adjusted so ironclads don't have too much advantage. Remember "ironclads" in this game are not like the image, i.e. a monitor which should have values like 4.4.1 but are iron covered Frigates, thus current values.

Enjoy

== PF

[Arrian]

In my current game, a seafaring AI civ (Carthage) has been using them, rather effectively, actually.

Chinese and Greek (me) ships have been traveling around the Carthaginian coast. Occasionally, a privateer will pop out of a Carthaginian city and hit a Chinese or Greek ship, and if it wins, dart back in. Well, only if it's hitting a Chinese ship, as those actual sail inside Carthage's borders. Mine stay out farther, especially since they started using the privateers. I did lose 1 frigate. It's all good. After all, I did invade them and steal two luxury supplies from them.

-Arrian

p.s. IIRC, in this game I've only built 1 privateer, and I lost it in it's first battle (I attacked vs. a 2-frigate ministack. I had little choice, as I didn't see them until most of my movement points were used, so there was no chance of fleeing).

[chequita guevara]

I like privateers. My neighboring civ has a HUGE navy, and I wanted to knock it down a few peg before our inevitable war (they are always attacking me).

Personally, I think frigates should be upgradable to ironclads, since, historicaly, that's what they did.

[planetfall]

Chegitz,

Heh, that's the greatest new idea I have seen about ancient naval wars. Of course frigates should be upgradeable. All you need to do is:
1. change editor settings,
2. replace the current ironclad image with a frigate wearing an iron coat.

-- PF