The anti loosing strategy (Monarch!) and various questions

[raptor_85]

Ok, here goes. I have so many problems its not funny.

I am playing on Monarch (wouldn't even think of playing something harder). Most of the time, I am stuck on either an island (even a 4 city one once) or a huge continent, and as luck would have it, I have not one single luxury resource. In this case, most of my citizens are unhappy. Sure I can fix that with entertainers and temples, but what do you do about money? I normally export stuff to other countries but without that ability how does one aquire money (yes i road every tile I use).

Second, I am having quite a problem with the other civs. About the time I descover map making, I have about 4 nations at war with me, no money, a small army, and I am way behind in technology (their in the Middle Ages). I use the research slider, but probably wrong.

Another question: How do the scientist citizens work.... I have tried using them before, but it does not seem to affect my research time. I also hear something about prefered governments, what are they, and how do they affect the civ? (America would be Republic and so forth). Last but not least, how WOULD someone play republic (it has no free support units, so I just stick with monarchy ), but I suppose that the money question will answer that.

Signed A third world country with no foreign aid

[vmxa1]

Well there is not much you can do about bad start locations, except get tough or start over.
The scientist as a worker, is mostly used to get the one beaker for research from a city that has noting going on or as a 0% research tactic and still get your 40 turn discovery.
Republic is a preferred form to choose for non religious civs. This allows them to get into a good all around government and only make one switch. It should have enough boost to offset the cost of your troops, if you have a reasonable amount of troops and a decent empire. It won't pay for massive armies and non productive cities. If you have mined all the bonus grasslands and even the non bonus ones in cities that do not need more food, you should be fine. With a few rivers and all worked tiles roaded, it ought to be making some money, if research and lux slider is not maxed out.

[CerberusIV]

Monarchy is really only of much use to religious civs and rabid warmongers. I follow a tech path to either horsemen or swordsmen, then currency (which allows catapults on the way) then republic and change government. Having marketplaces in your main cities with the commerce boost of republic should be enough to pay the bills.

A couple of spearmen, a catapult and one or two horsies/swords in your border cities is enough to defend against the AI early in the game if you also keep a small mobile reserve.

If you are alone on an island (build warriors and explore early) then you will only need archers to deal with the barbarians and can go for mapmaking rather than horseback riding/ironworking, then currency, then republic.

War whilst having a republic government is perfectly feasible. You can minimise war weariness by not having units in enemy territory and not losing units as far as possible.

[Stuie]

I just switched from Regent to Monarch several months ago (once I was happy with my mod). I found the biggest single factor to success on the higher difficulty level is REXing. You need to grab as much land as quickly as possible up front. If you get behind, the AI will bury you (and rightfully so; you'd do the same to the AI if you found it in your situation).

You might want to check out the REX thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=1240110#post1240110

[Ecthy]

I detest Monarch. Everyone says it's not harder than Regent (is this Prince?), but it is. Just look at the stats in the editor. I used to think I'm good at civ until I played Civ3. Now I know I suck.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
I detest Monarch. Everyone says it's not harder than Regent (is this Prince?), but it is. Just look at the stats in the editor. I used to think I'm good at civ until I played Civ3. Now I know I suck.

Well, I play whatever level I find to be FUN. I played Regent until I was routinely winning (not fun), so I switched to Monarch for more of a challenge (fun).

I have tried higher levels, but I just get stressed trying to keep up with the AI (not fun), so for now I'm sticking with Monarch, which gives me what I would term a casual challenge (that is, I don't necessarily have to worry about city spacing and counting shield production and such - I can just play).

[Ecthy]

yeah I'm sort of routinely winning on regent but can't get monarch done

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

After winning as EVERY civ on Regent mode, I vowed not to play Civ - to reform my life instead - until Christmastime, when I expect to get C3C. However, I broke down and began a Monarch game instead.

I must say, I was expecting much worse. My word to the discouraged: play a militartistic civ with many neighbors. REXing can be a challenge, and don't leave your cities undefended, but if you get a productive enough start location, build a few archers, and send them forth.

Kill anything you find. Barbarians are a no-brainer, but I'm talking settler-spearmen teams and scouts. Just kill them. This is very early in the game.

As the ancient era "fleshes out" and civs come into contact with each other, it's no longer a good idea to indiscriminately war. But early in the game, why not? The enemy might not even know where you are! The worst that can happen is that you gain nothing from the war, but mostly likely, you'll get a tech or two.

DON'T EXPECT TO WIN THE TECH RACE in the ancient era. That's the chief change from Regent to Monarch, as far as I can tell. Let the Scandanavians and Zulus have all the techs before you do. When they hit the Middle Ages, things will change GREATLY. Trust me. I wasn't expecting such a radical change, but you'll notice that the research/trading machine dies down utterly come the days of Monotheism and Feudalism.

Some have dismissed the value of the Great Library. I would never do such a thing. It's not too hard to build this wonder, and it gives you so much for free. This is very valuable if you're saving your money to launch wars, which (on a huge map at least) you MUST.

So, except being behind in the ancient era. Build endless vet warriors or chariots and upgrade en masse to something good once you've got 1000+ gold. Use those troops to do a little agressive "REXing" of your own. Soon you will find you can stay the course tech-wise if you want to play peaceful, or just keep agressing.

Any militaristic civ will work. I find Rome, if not isolated, is a good choice. Those legions work wonders. And capture wonders, too! Great timing for a GA, as well. Try not to spend your GA in despotism, but if you do, build endless legionaries and some marketplaces. After your conquests die down, you'll be #1. Then you can build and consolidate your gains.

Long-winded message. Moral of the story: Don't give up. Stay in the game. Monarch and Regent are NOT THAT DIFFERENT. I was scared of Monarch forever; I am no longer. And I'm doing very little differently.

[raptor_85]

And thats what I don't understand how are you getting 1000 gold? At the most I hardly ever make 20 per turn. I also fall further behind in the middle ages, I am using monarchy as of now in my current game. I only have an army of around 90 people, 10 gold a turn, bout half through middle age although everyone else is near the next age. Heh, with that small of an army everyone is walking all over me. Prehaps I should try someone other than the americans, and how should I be manipulating the tech slider? Thanks for all the help so far I am doing much better in my new game!

[CerberusIV]

Raising gold is a question with several possible answers.

Sell luxuries if you have them (this also makes the AI's you are selling to more friendly). Sell strategic resources if you have any spare - that can command a high price - but be careful to sell to friends who are on the other side of the map only!

Turn the research slider down. The research cost of techs reduces as more civs (that you are in contact with) know them so it is possible to slipstream the AI's.

Research a tech the AI doesn't go for early - currency and printing press are good examples - then sell it for other techs and gold. Even on a standard map with 5 or 6 other civs it is possible to turn one tech into 3 or 4 plus gold in this way.

Farm barbarians. Leave a corner of land unoccupied for a while. Each barbarian camp is 25 gold plus promotions for your units.

If the AI's are not all in contact with each other you can make a profit trading maps and techs for a while.

It is hard work but these things all add up in the end.

Raptor - the Americans are a fairly easy civ if you use them right. Have 2 or 3 scouts and make sure you are first to every hut on your continent. Get one worker per town/city early and build those roads and mines. Build an early city next to a river or lake so it can grow over size 6 and go for a key wonder (Great Library?) there. You can get that city's shield output up with mines quickly.

Get into Republic!!!!

If you want to try a different civ go for a religious/militaristic one - they are amongst the easiest to do well with.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Raptor: my advice is fairly different than Cerberus', though he does raise some good points. I would like to quibble on some small issues though and will do so below.

The biggest, best thing you can do is to set your tech slider to 10/20%. That's 80/90% taxes. If you REX well, and have at least one luxury attached to keep the people content, you should have at least 1000 gold well before the close of the ancient era.

Now, as mentioned before, build barracks and veteran warriors everywhere. For the Americans, this is an UNSTOPPABLE strategy! I'm serious: I achieved my best score ever as the Americans using just this technique. One small note: make sure you upgrade from warriors to swordsmen before feudalism. Medival Infantry are slightly better stat-wise, but timing and cost-wise, far worse.

On Monarch, even with your tech slider set to 80/90%, you're not going to keep up with the expanionists in the ancient era. So why bother to? Save the money and crush them instead. They won't be able to fight back if you strike early enough.

Now, the small petty quibling points:

1. Sellings maps is a good idea, but must be done with caution. Remember if you sell something to the AI, that AI has sold it to every other civ by the next turn. Your territory map might not be so valuable. Your world map might be though... so hoard it, and sell it to everyone at once, when everyone has something you want in return (large sums of gold will be fine)

2. Barbarian farming... yes, this will net you gold. But you'll also be losing workers and settlers to the odd barbarian horseman here and there. For me, it's not worth the hassle, but it's a matter of taste. Try it and see what you think.

3. Selling luxuries can indeed be quite lucrative, but I find that early in the game it's almost worthless. What, sell my competitors something that will keep them happy for a pittance? Later in the game, when you can get 30 gpt for a luxury, it's definitely worth it. Early on, better to keep your competitors unhappy IMO.

Remember: research can never be slower than a new tech per 40 turns! So if Alphabet takes 40 turns to research at a 50% tax rate, why not set your taxes to 90% and make that much more money?

You won't regret it when you send 40 veteran swordsmen to overrun one, or two, or three nearby civilizations. Trust me. You'll catch up in tech and recoup your losses, and have an army that will deter most aggressors.

[Rasputin]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth

Now, as mentioned before, build barracks and veteran warriors everywhere. For the Americans, this is an UNSTOPPABLE strategy! I'm serious: I achieved my best score ever as the Americans using just this technique. One small note: make sure you upgrade from warriors to swordsmen before feudalism. Medival Infantry are slightly better stat-wise, but timing and cost-wise, far worse.

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Tried this tactic a few times but found even veteran warriors were not good enough to inflict any damage on the AI. So gave up ever attacking with one of them. I see some people also like to attack with archers , again , i never have any lucky rolls with them and they got all massacred in attacks on enemy civs.

Now i just wait till i get them to swordsman or get horses. Once there i find i can manage a war agaisnt most civs (one at a time usually) and as my tech increases i upgrade my units reguallry .

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Rasputin
Tried this tactic a few times but found even veteran warriors were not good enough to inflict any damage on the AI.

Well of course not, silly grasshopper! The whole point of veteran warriors is that, with enough barracks, you eventually - NOT TOO EARLY - connect iron to your empire, and then upgrade them en masse using all that gold you've been saving to veteran swordsmen!

Trust me - it saves a lot of time. Building 40 veteran swordsmen is both more expensive and more time consuming than building 40 vet warrios and upgrading them when the time is right. But remember - once you have iron connected to your empire, you can't build warriors anymore. So build all the warriors you think you'll be upgrading before you connect iron. That's an easy mistake to make.

So gave up ever attacking with one of them. I see some people also like to attack with archers , again , i never have any lucky rolls with them and they got all massacred in attacks on enemy civs.

Archers can be deadly effective, but yes, it's the luck of the draw. The difference between veterans and regulars is massive. Try taking out barbarians with your archers until they're vet, or elite. Then, take on the right enemy. Don't attack any hoplites, and don't even attack any spearmen in a city with just one archer. With 3 or 4, I feel confident taking on a size 2 or 3 city, but even then, it's a toss of the dice.

Using archers to stop enemy scouts and settler-spearmen teams is very valuable, for reasons I mentioned in an earlier post - stopping the enemy's progress and maybe getting a free tech.

[Ecthy]

My main problems are quickly expanding AI, AI civs attacking early in the game as well as slow tech research compared to AI.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Forget trying to achieve parity in the early game. Trust me. If you're playing with a lot of "room" - say, a huge map with only 10 competitors, then build granaries and REX like hell - your empire will payoff. But if you're not playing with lots of room, then there's really only one option - you have to take that room via war. The best route for that, IMHO, is the massive footsolider/mounted soldier upgrade, but there are other routes availible, notably the "archer rush" or a variation thereof. Veteran archers and horsemen combined are always a great combo, if you don't want to wait to upgrade.

The AI, due to all its scouts running about, will outresearch you in the ancient era - that's just the bottom line. They will also out expand you. They will only attack you, however, if you're weak. They will leave undefended cities alone if they fear a massive retaliation otherwise. I've found that on Monarch level simply having lots of veteran warriors and a few archers around was enough to deter many invaders - although, on a recent game where I played aggressively to say the least, and had a formidable army, I was still attacked, by the French of all people!

You will be attacked - it's inevitable, once the other civs run out of room to expand. When it happens, you must turn the attack to your advantage! That's why you should aim to have a large mobile force as opposed to endless defenders. Mobile forces can act as police but also as a counter-force when you're attacked. Look at being attacked as an opportunity - an opportunity to swallow the attacker's empire whole!

I wanted to add one thing, too: don't fear "superpowered" civs, even during their GA. Say you're attacked by the Celts, with a Gaelic Swordsman. Is that scary? Yes! But if you persevere, the Celts will never have a GA again. As for YOUR GA, well, there's a lot to take in consideration there, but if it's triggered by an offensive of your own, especially if you're still in despotism, my advice is to use the GA to double the size of your army and take as much land as you can. More land = More Income and Tech, even after your GA ends.