How do I make and keep relations??

[Cort Haus]

yeah, vmxa1 - you're a star. Not are you only one of the most uncompromisingly militaristic players on the forum, you're also one of the most experienced and helpful. Good on ya!

For mdsade's question on relations I'd suggest the following :

If you just want to kick the cr*p out of the AI then, as vmxa1 understands, good relations aren't that important - other than (1)keeping the ability to use ROPs to access 3rd party enemies, and (2) being allowed to pay gpt should you require it.

To keep these two, (1) don't violate ROPs and (2) don't break gpt deals, but otherwise go crush them.

If you want to play peaceful builder and have not mastered the game then play at Regent or below for less aggressive neighbours and no build penalties for yourself, and/or observe the following principles for good relations.

1. Establish embassies asap.
2. Sign and maintain ROPs. Sell ROPs to smaller, weaker Civs and buy from larger, stronger ones if they're scary. Beware the sneak attack though.
3. Trade science.
4. Trade maps regularly. (if you've no strategic reason for avoiding releasing your map)
5. Trade resources. This is the most important as it (a) improves relations and (b) gives the AI a reason not to attack you. vmxa1 mentioned roads and harbours.
6. Try and pay the AI in GPT, and take as much payment as possible in cash. If the AI is owing you money it is more likely to start a war to escape payment (especially if skint). If you could buy something for 1000G, or pay 52GPT, use the latter, otherwise they can take the money and run.
7. Be good. Don't break any deals.
8. Be kind. I often keep Bismark or Xerxes off my back by gifting them gold (especially GPT) and being sweet so that they go attack each other instead.
9. Be strong. Have a decent size army with well defended borders and remote colonies to discourage attack.
10. Be wise. Peace-play often hinges on battling it out on the diplomacy screen. Shop around, and shop regularly. Eventually you can learn to sniff out which techs the AI is researching and at what pace. Then you can make the most lucrative deals at the right time and in the late game, cream off much of the economic surplus of the world by selling the fruits of a tech lead for mega gpt.

[vmxa1]

You are too kind. I in fact ran a log and sent her a start game with the log. She responded with some further questions, but that was as far as it got.
I just remember all the times I got questions answered on game forums and how I appreciated it (especially the old Might and Magic forum). Of course you get the ones that ask a question and never come back for any of the suggestions.
Over the past two years I would have stopped and be playing a game once every 6 months, if it was not for the forum here. (Not sure if that is such a good thing, now that I think of it.)

[msade]

Hi Vmxa

Do not worry Vmxa1, I was just too preoccupied lately with stupid things..

I am going to return to the game and continue with you, just be patient...

[Mad Bomber]

Vmxa:

That was a great thread of a good succession game. I wonder if some AU regulars could start up a succession game for the new players. AU games are great for honing the skill level of accomplished players but with new players they typically need more individualized instruction that a succession game can provide.

[Rhothaerill]

That's a good thought about the AU succession game Mad Bomber. It was proposed in that thread Theseus started a few months ago, though I don't remember who proposed it, but didn't get much farther at the time. Maybe Nuclear Master as the AU Dean can follow up on this thought a bit. I'll PM him right now to see if he can pursue this a bit more.

[Rhothaerill]

Oh, and since I didn't say it before... to vmxa1. Most of the strat forum regulars are more than happy to help newer players learn the game, but he has definitely taken it to another level.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
Vmxa:

I wonder if some AU regulars could start up a succession game for the new players. AU games are great for honing the skill level of accomplished players but with new players they typically need more individualized instruction that a succession game can provide.

Just a thought:
Why not create a thread like my 'Emperor level: how to improve your skills' but on Monarch or even Regent?
Or would this be not individualized enough?
Anybody to volunteer?

vmxa1: quote ' I sent her...' so msade is a 'she'?
well msade, welcome, I thought civ 3 was only for 'hes'

[vmxa1]

MS, I thought that is what was going to happen after a fashion in AU. There would be several levels of games with some players doing a parallel.
It is a lot easier to do a segment, than a whole game. The other issue is that I am not sure if there is complete agreement on how to play. Several tactics are viable.
Some play more or less all warmonger, others play mainly builders and others mix it up. I know I am terrible on trading and diplomatic portions. I just don't care for it and take the hit.
The real effort would be to make it detailed enough and readable. Some here are very good a putting their games forward in an enjoyable light (not me).

[Mountain Sage]

vmxa1,

One advantage I see in a 'Monarch thread' is that people like msade (she or he??? she put 'Dear vmxa1, after all) can bring her/his own game and we could have fun playing her/his game AND commenting it, without the AU's restrictions.
What do you think?

[vmxa1]

I see it as all good. Most of the new players that come here likely play Warlord and some Regent. If they are beyond that point we have plenty of threads for them.
I believe that the ones that have gotten the most as new comers are those that had their own threads and started a game at what ever the level was they are using. I think we have at least had Warlord players do that and are now comfortable at emperor.
It takes some time to play a game or three at the first two levels one starts with. After that they have the skills and are just rolling along.

[msade]

Reffering to the things CourtHouse told in this thread- can anyone explain to me?

BTW, yes, I am a nice grown up girl.

1) What did he mean by being a Regent? how do I become a Regent? 2) What advantage do I get from selling ROPs to smaller, weaker Civs? 3) How do I get the GPT payment in cash? 4) Explain to me the sentence: "if the AI is owing you money it is more likely to start a war to escape payment???(especially if skint???) 5) Do I get well defended borders by putting many soldiers there? 6) Does only Elizabeth's Civ have colonies? if not- how do the others have? 7) What is exactly AI?

[vmxa1]

Regent is one of the level of difficulty in the game. He did not know you were playing at Chieftain, which is easier than Regent.

[vmxa1]

Re: Reffering to the things CourtHouse told in this thread- can anyone explain to me?

Originally posted by msade
BTW, yes, I am a nice grown up girl.


5) Do I get well defended borders by putting many soldiers there?
6) Does only Elizabeth's Civ have colonies? if not- how do the others have?
7) What is exactly AI?

#7) AI stands for artifical Inteligence, it is a way to refer to other civs or the way the game thinks.
#6) not sure of the context here, but colonies can be either other towns you have taken from the AI or it could be the structures that are created by workers to use resources.
#5) that will do it.

[vmxa1]

Re: Reffering to the things CourtHouse told in this thread- can anyone explain to me?

Originally posted by msade
BTW, yes, I am a nice grown up girl.

2) What advantage do I get from selling ROPs to smaller, weaker Civs?
3) How do I get the GPT payment in cash?
4) Explain to me the sentence: "if the AI is owing you money it is more likely to start a war to escape payment???(especially if skint???)

#2) well this one is not really up my alley. IMO it is to be avoided for the most part. The concept is you gain some gold by selling it to a weaker civ and they are no threat to you. Stronger civ will be slowr to atack when you have money coming their way.

#3) When you make a trade deal, you have two choices 1- gpt
2- lump sum

#4) I did not follow the skint part. The main point is that if the AI (read one of the civs) is paying you gold per turn for something like a tech, it can avoid the payments if it goes to war. This will not be the main reason, but if you were in the same spot and were thinking of war, that could be the thing that tips the scales. If they were paying you for lux or iron or anything they would need, they would be less likely to want to cut that off. They need those items. That does not mean they won't, but it will be less likely. You can not assume the AI will be rational either. If you beat it, that does not prevent it from declaring war or an embargo on you. It is not like you, we would think hard about poking someone that had just handed us our head.

[Cort Haus]

(msade PM'd those Q's to me - here's a copy of my reply)

1. Regent is the difficulty level, selected on the new game start up screen.

2. ROP = Right of Passage. Once you've got an embassy with a civ, (needs Writing) you can sign a ROP agreement on the diplomacy screen. This allows each civ to access each other's land without violating peace. It significantly improves relations between civs. If you are stonger (land & military) that the other civ you can add money to their side of the table. If weaker, you might need to add money to your side.

3. I don't have the game in front of me but on the diplomacy screen, under gold, you can choose lump sum or gold-per-turn (GPT)

4. All deals are cancelled when war is declared. If Rome owed me 30 gold per turn from a tech deal then declared war, it doesn't pay any more and the deal is dead.

5. By 'well-defended' I mean with military units, yes. Where and how many depended on a lot of things. At least two defensive units (preferably veteran) in border cities early on, added to as the game progresses. Offensive units also help with defense.

6. Any civ can have colonies. What I mean by 'colony' is distant city on an island or remote continent. They can be weak and vunerable, requiring units shipped out to defend. The other sort of colony is the worker colony - built on a resource outside your borders and linked by road to the capital.

7. AI is the Artificial Intelligence - the computer civ.


* skint = broke. If Persia is getting 50gpt from Rome, allowing me to sell sell tech to Persia for 70gpt, and then Rome's 20-turn payment ends, Persia might not have the economy to sustain the payments to me without disbanding units or improvements. Declaring war releases them from the debt.