How do I make and keep relations??

[Cort Haus]

yeah, vmxa1 - you're a star. Not are you only one of the most uncompromisingly militaristic players on the forum, you're also one of the most experienced and helpful. Good on ya!

For mdsade's question on relations I'd suggest the following :

If you just want to kick the cr*p out of the AI then, as vmxa1 understands, good relations aren't that important - other than (1)keeping the ability to use ROPs to access 3rd party enemies, and (2) being allowed to pay gpt should you require it.

To keep these two, (1) don't violate ROPs and (2) don't break gpt deals, but otherwise go crush them.

If you want to play peaceful builder and have not mastered the game then play at Regent or below for less aggressive neighbours and no build penalties for yourself, and/or observe the following principles for good relations.

1. Establish embassies asap.
2. Sign and maintain ROPs. Sell ROPs to smaller, weaker Civs and buy from larger, stronger ones if they're scary. Beware the sneak attack though.
3. Trade science.
4. Trade maps regularly. (if you've no strategic reason for avoiding releasing your map)
5. Trade resources. This is the most important as it (a) improves relations and (b) gives the AI a reason not to attack you. vmxa1 mentioned roads and harbours.
6. Try and pay the AI in GPT, and take as much payment as possible in cash. If the AI is owing you money it is more likely to start a war to escape payment (especially if skint). If you could buy something for 1000G, or pay 52GPT, use the latter, otherwise they can take the money and run.
7. Be good. Don't break any deals.
8. Be kind. I often keep Bismark or Xerxes off my back by gifting them gold (especially GPT) and being sweet so that they go attack each other instead.
9. Be strong. Have a decent size army with well defended borders and remote colonies to discourage attack.
10. Be wise. Peace-play often hinges on battling it out on the diplomacy screen. Shop around, and shop regularly. Eventually you can learn to sniff out which techs the AI is researching and at what pace. Then you can make the most lucrative deals at the right time and in the late game, cream off much of the economic surplus of the world by selling the fruits of a tech lead for mega gpt.

[dexters]

vmxa1 should get an award for doing this.

It's rare to see someone who is so helpful and thorough in any game forum.

[vmxa1]

Like I said, I woudl recommend you create a new game. Save it before you do anything. Play maybe 20 turns and save again.
Post each save here or email it to me and I will critique it for you. If I see anything off, I will paly the turns and post a log of the moves. These may not be the best possible, but will surely be reasonable guidlines.
The purpose is to insure that you are aware of how you could go about building an empire.

BTW I could not load your save in PTW, so I had to use CivIII. You may want to mention which game you are using to make it easier for others. Sometimes even the patch level has an impact.
I am at PTW 121F and hence CivIII 129F. I am waiting to try 127F for PTW.

[vmxa1]

Re: What is the best summery for a start?

Originally posted by msade
"2) they should work on tiles that have any bonus"

They should normally work on any tile that is being worked by a citizen. It is best that citizens be assign to the best tiles first. Eventually they will be working poor tiles as well.

"4) from what you've mentioned, I still do not figure out
what about the maintenance of peace with the other
civs..?"

That is a very long tricky subject. For now, I would just say 1- have a strong military 2- make trades 3- keep deals 4- if weak pay tribute (not my style)
This part of the game can come later.

"5) I am interested to know what is the latest year in
which I can still win the game? (you've said that
there's no chance in and after 2048), and mybe
next time I will not lose a precious time but start
immediately all over again and not after hours of
playing the dam game..!"

The game ends at 2050. You should have gotten a msg saying you will have to retire in 20 years.

"6) and after you answered the 5 last questions, is there
anything else here that I should know that would
be useful to me??"

Many things, but it is wise to not bite off more than you can chew. IOW get the basics of managing the workers and citizens first. Then you can add more skills later.

[msade]

What is the best summery for a start?

Dear vmxa1:

At the moment, I only understand the following things:

1) I must have workers for each city

2) they should work on tiles that have any bonus

3) I should contact with civilizations

4) from what you've mentioned, I still do not figure out
what about the maintenance of peace with the other
civs..?

5) I am interested to know what is the latest year in
which I can still win the game? (you've said that
there's no chance in and after 2048), and mybe
next time I will not lose a precious time but start
immediately all over again and not after hours of
playing the dam game..!

6) and after you answered the 5 last questions, is there
anything else here that I should know that would
be useful to me??

[vmxa1]

If these concepts are not clear, I would suggest you go to CFC.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=36486

This thread will step you through some early play by a master player (cracker). He can be harsh, but you will see how it is done move by move.

I would suggest you run a game similar to that here.
Make a new game post the 4000bc save.
Run 20 turns and post that. Then a review can be done and things can be suggested before it is too late to get back on track.
As long as the save is 500k or less it should be postable. If larger, zip it.

[vmxa1]

Speaking of resources and I include lux here, you have not hooked up any. The iron will allow you to at least build swordsmen and upgrade warriors, once you have the money and a barracks. You have no horses, so you could not build Horsemen and Knights, etc.
The saltpetter is not connected, so no muskets and later rifles. You must connect all tiles by the time of Steam. You then will have that coal and can start in on the railroad building.

So what the cities are building is limited, but you need to be sure to get Libs and Temples up as they add culture. The libs add to research. I feel the game is meant to be micromanaged and the cities and workers are the keys. Look at Babylon. It is a size 9 with no growth. You are building a Hospitol there. You can not use it now as you are not growing anyway. I would surely have my capitol at size 12 by now, then the Hospital is a good idea.
If a city is not growing you need to see why and try to correct it. If it is at max, then add the structure to increase its size or research one. If it is not at max, see what is need to grow. Is it food, then irriagate or move a worker to a tile that produces more food.

[vmxa1]

Ok, now on to the problems. First I would not spend any time on this game as it is 2048 and you can not win. The only reason the AI did not finish you off is it it is awful at invasions from the sea.

I would start a new game. Be sure to make some workers, one for each city at least. Have them improve tiles that are being worked by your citizens. Look in the city and see where they are working. Move them if it is not the best place. By that I mean if you see a citizen on a hill creating 1 food and 1 shield, and you have a bonus grassland in the city, move that pop to that tile.
Send a worker over to the tile and mine it and then road it. I will not deal with the cases where it is better to do it in reverse. You do not need to get that sophisticated yet.

You need roads to add commerce (read gold) to the empire. They also allow you to move around faster and share resources. You have no workers at all.

[vmxa1]

No way will I be in Despotism after I learn either Monarchy or Republic, that is just a killer for your empire.
Anarchy is worse, but it is like do you want a kick in the shin or in the rear. Both are bad.

Spending at 100% with -68 gpt and zero reserve. This will not work. You can not go negative without a reserve to cover or the game will sell of improvements.
At least sell your own selection if you must.
I will come back to why you are in this spot.

No trade potential with any civs. You must be connected to them to trade. This means roads/harbor or airports are required. Trade is not a must, but it is a useful piece of the puzzle. I did not check to see if you had embassies or not. I tend to slap them in when I get to my Wonder building phase. This lets me see who is building it and where they are. If they are way ahead on the one I am starting, then I know not to bother.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Chalk this up as an entry for "The weirdest threads you have ever seen..................."

[vmxa1]

So I will just hit a few of the main points:

Research in the industrial age, my preferred oder would be
Steam, Industrial, Elec, Medicine, Scientific
This is because I want the rails up ASAP as they boost production and allow me to get around instantly.
Industry for the Factories, may want to do some prebuilds in key cities for them. You need that boost.
Electricity and Medicine primarily as they are prereqs for Scientific. You want that to get the ToE among other things, such as toget to Replacement Parts.
I know that a builder only may see things a bit differently, but you can not go wrong with this track.

[vmxa1]

Here is the file. I just zipped it. Use "Post Reply", hit the "browse" button.

[vmxa1]

msade you can click on the flag under my name. This takes you to the member list. Here you can send email.
Anyway it is vmxa@sbcglobal.net

[msade]

Hi vmxa1: I need your e mail address

Hi, I need your email address because I want you to be able to open the file of my scenario in your computer!! by your game itself!! otherwise I will never be able to show it because of the fact that only Frustratedpoet have put a file of mine into this forum successfully, (but as a start -he also gave me his email address- and I sent my file to him and gave him the instructions for opening it, and the same I want to do with you !!). I do not know at all why my files can not be attached in any simple way to this forum, thus if you do not mind and want to help me- this is the only way to do it and I will thankeful to you.

[vmxa1]

First you will need to post a save to see what you referenced. Next you can not sit and must expand and improve you tiles.