The whole wide world

[Knecht]

I have always played on the largest map possible both with Civ II and Civ III (and in Civ III, I really like Pangaean maps). The slow discovery of distant lands and peoples beyond my borders has, for me, always been a central part of the Civilization mystique. I also enjoy games that last for a week or more as this gives me a greater feeling of historicity, each game having a unique character and a past that soon becomes distant. I really like the feature at the end of Civ III that lets you replay the whole game - I like watching the cities appear (and disappear) and saying "oh yeah, I remember that" about something that (since it actually happened last week, I had all but forgotten). Anyway, while I'm sort of addicted to the big maps, it does raise a problem or two for me (or seems to, at any rate). While the REXing strategy so often recommended in these forums works just as well on big maps, early rushing of other civs is more of a problem. More often than not, there are large distances and obstacles between you and your nearest neighbor. Even using horsemen or other fast movers, the likelihood that they will have to traverse jungles or mountainous terrain erases their advantage. It often takes so long for an expeditionary force to reach even the nearest Civ that by the time they get there, even your own tech advances have rendered the units obsolete and your army of horsemen is up against swordsmen or even pikemen and generally outclassed. My first question would be (to those that also like big maps), do you still try and rush your neighbors in ancient times and, if so, how do you go about it? Or, alternatively, do you wait until the middle ages by which time you usually have Chivalry and you and your neighbors have expanded into each other (and many of the advantages of hitting them when they're small are lost)? Another issue with large maps is the problem of resources. Very often those precious iron deposits are so far away that it takes forever to nail them down and thus to gain a tech advantage over your neighbors. The third problem I have is deciding when to quit REXing. On huge maps, you often have so much time and space in which to expand that you can really spend all your time building settlers and workers (who spend most of their time just building roads to connect all those cities) that you never get around to building city improvements, defensive units, etc. Is there some finite number at which you say "I've got enough cities" and turn to other things or do you just keep doing it until there's no more room? Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

[Arrian]

I've only played 1 huge map game, and it wasn't a mega map (largest possible), just the regular 'ole "huge" available at startup.

I suspect from your description that I haven't played anything that resembles your favored settings. So though I'd like to help, I'd have to make all sorts of assumptions that are probably wrong... and you know where that gets us.

-Arrian

[ChrisiusMaximus]

I love the big maps too and all the points you make concerning the distance of neighbours in the early game and distance of resources are all to familiar to me.

To answer your question I usually build until theres no space left, but to make it easier to connect all those cities I tend to play an industrious civ to build the roads faster when playing a huge map. Sometimes I use the increased production option as well to help speed up city development, but not every game.

If its a pangea map Ill focus on getting the Lighthouse and search for those islands you always seem to get with an isolated civ on them, and usually try to take over their cities outright. Its one way of expanding your civ still further when the rex phase on the mainland has finished. I always try to gobble up any islands to prevent the other civs from settling their but with varying levels of success, they make good staging posts for gathering invasion forces in the later game.

One thing true about the larger maps is that wars are much tougher and take much longer especially when facing an opponent with access to all the late game units but I love the immense scale of it all.

[Sitting Bull]

I don't play huge maps because rexing takes forever, as you pointed out, instead I usually play large maps with only 7 opponent civs. This usually avoids excessively early war (by intent), but mid/late ancient war is usually possible. I have found it a better balance. Try it.

[Knecht]

Thanks for your reply, ChrisiusMaximus. Based upon the dearth of replies to this thread, I'm guessing that we lovers of big maps are few. It also seems that the problems I noted go with the territory and must be tolerated. I might do as Sitting Bull has suggested and try the next notch down but I still like the big maps, which brings me to you, Arrian. I appreciate your honesty and reserve but I'm afraid that your mention of a mega map has intrigued me. I have been playing the original Civ III with the 1.29f patch and, as far as I can tell, the largest map size is huge. If there is a random map larger than huge I'd love to try it. Can you point me in the right direction? Does it come with Play the World? Huger than huge? Absolutely. You betcha. I wannit.

[Panzer32]

In the editor, you can generate an amazinly huge map (like more than 300 x 300).

[Jaybe]

... I also enjoy games that last for a week or more as this gives me a greater feeling of historicity, each game having a unique character and a past that soon becomes distant. ...

I scoff at your quick week-long games! Mine are months-long (ya know, 60+ hours).

Though you've got me on the size department. Haven't played a Huge map lately, and I definitely haven't played a mega-huge game where you run into the 512-city limit. I do prefer a couple of continents.

[Knecht]

I scoff at your quick week-long games! Mine are months-long (ya know, 60+ hours).

Thanks for putting things in perspective, Jaybe. To what do you attribute the great length of these games? I see that you live in Las Vegas, could it be the lack of clocks? Sorry, I couldn't resist that. But, really, you must micromanage the hell out of those games to make them last so long. My hat is off.
To Panzer32, thanks for the tip. I've just started a game with a 256 X 256 map (that's the max). I may regret it, but I just have to see what it's like.

[vmxa1]

I have played a number of huge and even one mega. I am not fond of them, because if it takes 80 hours to play, I will try to get it done in 5 days.
Anyway, I do not rush in ancient age in those maps as it hurts me as much as them. The reason (IMO) for a rush in std maps, is I will need that land and it buys time, if I kill them right away. This is not the case in huge maps.
I will expand and grab all the land I can, this is anoher boring aspect in a huge map, as this phase is too long.
I want all I can get, because it may have resources and I will want to get to any luxs quickly.

[Sitting Bull]

The last time I tried a huge map I played Iroqouis and popped so many huts I was getting stuff like map making and polytheism while I still had like 2 or 3 cities.
Let us know how it goes. It will be interesting, though I wouldn't want to do it, lol.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Knecht
Thanks for putting things in perspective, Jaybe. To what do you attribute the great length of these games? ...

Yes, I DO micromanage, manually control my workforce (like any good player does ), strategize, contemplate, ... and I'm not that quick of a thinker in the first place!

As to clocks, WHO looks at a timepiece while they are playing Civ!?

[vmxa1]

Well if the turns are taking 10's of minutes, you can't help looking at the time.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
To answer your question I usually build until theres no space left,

But after a while you don't get anything from those cities, surely. They'll never serve up more than a single shield/gold, so are they worth the expense of a defending unit & maybe temple?

I noticed the AI calls it a day on new cities once the ?OCN? limit is reached.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Cort youre right that they are pretty much useless in the early game those far flung cities but when developed and large in the late game they pull their own weight, not all of them but a fair percentage.

Ive also seen the AI continue to build way past the OCN on some maps, again not every time but yes occasionally.

On a large map its more to do with control of the area more than vastly increasing youre production.

[badman]

You don't need to REX until you have every free tile occupated.
It's enough to claim some good land. You can stop REXing when you share a border with your neighbour.
Then I usually attack with Swordsmen or Horsemen. Archers are useless on huge maps.

I don't often play on huge maps due to my slow computer.