Civ-specific strategy: Germans

[DaveMcW]

Originally posted by Arrian
Germany has some flexibility with their GA. In my game, I triggered it via buiding (errr, rushing) Sun Tzu, after having built (err, rushed) the Great Library.

But w/o the Library, one could wait for Newton's. Or wait for Panzers, but I think that's a bit late.
-Arrian

That sounds rather inflexible to me! The Germans absolutely have to get the Great Library for an efficient win.

The best way to do this is nonstop warring using every means available (archers, swordmen, horsemen) until a leader is produced. The Germans are the only civ with which I would consider rushing the Great Library before the Forbidden Palace or Pyramids.

[Master Zen]

The Great Library is not a necessity for the Germans for an efficient win IMO. A GA with Newton's can give the German player a huge lead in the early industrial age paving the way for cheap factories, hospitals, ToE and Hoover. And Panzers are just around the corner... sure, getting the GL is sweet but a good tech dealer can stay on top and rack up $$ anyways thanks to cheap libraries.

[dexters]

Great Library expires in the industrial age.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Master Zen]

Actually the GL expires with Education, a mid-Medieval tech.

[nbarclay]

Expiration is irrelevant in regard to triggering golden ages with wonders. Also note that when you build a wonder, the game checks captured wonders as well as ones you've built yourself when evaluating whether a GA is triggered. So depending on where the Great Library ends up, capturing it and building another wonder can sometimes provide an alternative way of triggering an earlier GA. (The same can go for Newton's if someone else ends up building it.)

On the other hand, Germany can make exceptionally good use of its late UU-triggered GA. One of the biggest obstacles to large-scale conquest with tanks is building enough of them quickly, since nothing else can upgrade to tanks. If Germany hasn't used its GA yet, though, they can take advantage of it to crank out panzers significantly more quickly. A mobilized Germany in its golden age can be truly awesome as a late-blooming warmonger.

That's not to say that I like Germany's GA situation. I don't. But it's not quite as bad as it appears to be at first glance.

[Chemical Ollie]

I like playing Germany, but I usually rename them "Preussians". Excellent for both early and late warfare and very good in between.

They are also evil as your neighburs. I remember a mini-tournament, (or was it Mark G's official Apolyton Tournaments?), where the human civ was stuck on a small island with no resources and shared it with the Germans. I tried an archer rush after building my 3rd city and attacked with a stack of 10 archers, 1 warrior and 1 spearman. Autorazed 1 city and killed some unit in the open, then reached Berlin with 5-6 of my archers left. All of them died. Then the Krauts counterattacked with 2 archers. They parked on a mountain beside my border city. I tried to attack them with my only archer who died, then they killed the defending spearman and took my city. They moved on and my capitol was only defended by a warrior - Game Over

Now, this was my 500th post!!!

[Dominae]

Olaf, I believe in the scenario you're describing the human player was playing the Germans, against the Russian AI (on the home island).


Dominae

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Expiration is irrelevant in regard to triggering golden ages with wonders. Also note that when you build a wonder, the game checks captured wonders as well as ones you've built yourself when evaluating whether a GA is triggered. So depending on where the Great Library ends up, capturing it and building another wonder can sometimes provide an alternative way of triggering an earlier GA. (The same can go for Newton's if someone else ends up building it.)

On the other hand, Germany can make exceptionally good use of its late UU-triggered GA. One of the biggest obstacles to large-scale conquest with tanks is building enough of them quickly, since nothing else can upgrade to tanks. If Germany hasn't used its GA yet, though, they can take advantage of it to crank out panzers significantly more quickly. A mobilized Germany in its golden age can be truly awesome as a late-blooming warmonger.

That's not to say that I like Germany's GA situation. I don't. But it's not quite as bad as it appears to be at first glance.

I am not so usually fond of military GAs. My favorite time for GA are when there are new and vital improvements, that's why I like my GAs in the mid-medieval or early industrial age lapse. Frankly taking advantage of GA during a building phase gears me up for war later on. I can build tanks in 2-3 turns in most major cities by the time I get motorized transport without mobilizing.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre
I like playing Germany, but I usually rename them "Preussians". Excellent for both early and late warfare and very good in between.

Just to be a pain...

"Pruessians" would be an alternate form of "Prüssians," however, that's the incorrect way to spell that in German, since in German it's actually "Prußen" which would be "Prussen" in English, which was simplified to "Prussian."

[bongo]

Trip , there is an opening for a Minister of Grammar and Spelling on the Mohammed Al-Sahaf team. He who gets the post will improve foreign relations by pointing out bad grammar and spelling in other teams.

[Nakar Gabab]

Originally posted by bongo
Trip , there is an opening for a Minister of Grammar and Spelling on the Mohammed Al-Sahaf team. He who gets the post will improve foreign relations by pointing out bad grammar and spelling in other teams.

Surely you mean that there are absolutely no openings of any kind for a Minister of Grammar and Spelling on the Mohammed Al-Sahaf team, and never will be. Such a position does not and will not exist.

[HAND]

I usually go for a swordsman rush(obviously assuming you have iron)..Archers to me seem alittle too weak, again if you have lots of them then, the outcome will be very different. But i prefer a smaller but individually stronger force to a bigger, individually weaker one.

[bongo]

Nakar Gabab, are you after that post?

Infidel!

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Neighbors

After several galling poor attempts to get going as the Germans, I have come to this conclusion: it is best to be near the Europeans and Asians, not the Europeans and "Mid East" civs. With the "Mid East"eners around, there's just too much scientific competition, not to mention potentially too many civs!

The Celts can be useful allies to have in your many German wars, but I would be wary of letting them reach the industrial age. With 7 turns to go until a cultural victory, the Celts have declared war on me, and I am not quite in a position to conquer them in 7 turns... the sheer number of elite knights and veteran cavalry they have produced is galling, not to mention the defending rifleman.

Normally I might "pshaw" this force, except that I have 7 turns to wipe them out in, and my forces are spread incredibly thin.

If you have an opportunity to cripple the Celts early on, do so! The only threat that I have faced from the others was in terms of trade/development.

NOTE: It is also a good idea to cripple the weak Russians before their empire gets too big. Take on the English at any time - no matter what size they are, their empire seems ripe for the picking...

[Arrian]

One of the good things about playing Germany with cultural linking on is the weakness of your neighbors (militarily, France has strong traits at least). This makes you a wolf amongst lambs. Harrass the hell out of them. No mercy. Steal their workers, break their terrain improvements, and bop their settler teams.

DaveMcW says that the Germans are pretty much the only civ he'd use an early great leader to rush the GL with. Well, in my current game, I did just that (though the 1st leader was used on the Pyramids, it was #2 that built the GL). Still, I don't think they're that inflexible, due to Newton's.

On Huge maps, well, the Germans are going to have trouble. Archer wars are less effective. Non-industriousness hurts more. They aren't especially good for the "build first, fight later" approach.

-Arrian