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  • Civ-Specific Strategy: French

    This thread is the logical sequel of Dominae’s ‘Civ-Specific Strategy: Americans’
    Why not have threads for each Civ with comments, strategies, tips etc.?

    Therefore, here we go for the second one:


    1. French civ-traits

    A. Commercial:

    This trait is often overlooked, because it is insidious. You don’t see the benefits immediately, meaning in the Ancient Times, but they accrue turn after turn for the rest of the game. In fact, the commercial trait really kicks in by the mid-Middle Age.

    What is the usefulness of the commercial trait? Well, it lowers corruption and boosts commerce, which in turn gives you a more productive and balanced empire.

    Corruption: this is a true civ-killer. Not for the first few core cities, of course, but the bigger your empire expands, the more its effects will hurt you. In fact, it’s like dogs, cats and fleas. Every settler will bring it along with him.
    But how much is corruption reduced? I don’t have any statistics, but let’s assume its only 1 gold/city/turn (the IA cannot make it ½ gold, ¼ gold etc.). Now, 1 gold saved/turn x 300 turns (the total maximum turn of the game is 540) = 300 gold saved per city.

    Extra commerce: You get 1 extra gold for cities up to size 12 and 2 extra gold for cities size 12+. Now, 1 x 200 turns -about 250AD- = 200 gold. Add another 50 turns at size 12+ = 100 gold.

    Total commercial trait: 600 gold PER CITY over 300 turns – about 1700AD. Now you can really plan your empire of 30+ cities…

    Finally, the optimal number of cities on a set map is increased by 25% instead of 12,5% (dixit Soren). The only drawback I can see is that on small (and sometimes standard) maps it will be more difficult to build the FP.

    Of course, the bigger the map, the more effective this trait is (more cities = less corruption = more production + more gold).


    B. Industrious:

    This trait has two advantages.
    Extra shields: each city from size 7+ produces 1 more shield. If not a big difference for the core cities, this is still helpful for fringe-cities. Add a courthouse and they’ll look less hopeless.

    Double-speed worker ability: by far its most important advantage.
    First of all, you get 1 free worker on turn 1; it can immediately start a road, irrigate or mine. Then, 1 worker costs 10 shields and 1 pop point, plus 1 gold/turn for the upkeep. Therefore, for the same amount of work, you can build only 50% of the needed workers. For instance, on a 20-city empire with 10 workers, the difference is +10 gold/turn AND 2 size 5 cities (now, 10 gold x 300 turns = …), and of course the saved shields spent on something else (the saddle of a Horseman, for instance).

    But this is not everything: double-speeded irrigation and mines improves your food and shield output. On average, it will take your worker about 22-24 turns to irrigate 2 tiles, mine 2 others and build a road on all of them. So, after 24 turns, your city can happily grow to size 6 and your worker can start on the next one.

    But the most important feature is certainly double-speed road building. In the early game, time is your enemy, and an early road network gives you faster
    - access to resources and luxuries, including denial to other civs,
    - settler movement, therefore better city placement,
    - military movement (Horsemen at 6 tiles/turn!),
    - road networks linkage, i.e. trade opportunities.

    Finally, you are cursed with jungle? In 12 turns, your patch is ready for irrigation.


    2. The tech race

    A. Industrious:
    The starting tech is Masonry. Add a pinch of water to it and … instant Pyramids! (well, almost, just add a few turns and some shields). A free granary in each city, besides the effect as a ‘normal’ granary, makes you save 1 gold/turn/city. Again, 20 cities x 1 gold x 200 turns…

    B. Commercial:
    The starting tech is Alphabet. Get writing after 40 turns (and Pottery with a goodie-hut!) and you have two possibilities, either go for Literature and the Great Library, or go for Map Making and the Great Lighthouse.

    Put the two traits together and via Mathematics, Philosophy and Code of Laws go for the Republic. Since these techs are not the first researched by the AI, milk it dry.


    3. Assorted Wonders

    A. Industrious: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Wall, Hoover Dam, Manhattan Project, Internet.
    B. Commercial: Colossus, Great Lighthouse, Magellan’s Great Voyage, Smith Trading Co., United Nations, Internet.

    You have 5 Ancient Wonders, 2 Medieval ones, 2 Industrial and 2 Modern Times ones.


    4. Golden Age

    The main problem with 5 Ancient Wonders is that some of them are easily built (even on Monarch), which will trigger your GA. If it’s too soon, well, let another civ build them and get them later, if you cannot live without them.

    On the other side, the French UU, the Musketeer, is available only in the mid-Middle Ages. In a tight race, a medieval GA, when most of the other civs have already spent theirs (under Despotism!), can pull you ahead of the game again.


    5. UU

    The Musketeer is by far not one of the best UU. But look at the bright side: it’s a strong defender and can trigger your GA in the Middle-Ages. Just compare it with Carthage’s, (which is also commercial/industrious): Carthage’s GA is triggered in the Ancient Times, which, IM(H)O, is not the best thing if you are at war, since you want your GA for rexing and building improvements, not military units.


    Conclusion:

    Playing the French gives you a more productive empire than most other civs. Less corruption, more shields, more gold. This is especially true if you gave big one (through conquest or on huge maps).
    The extra gold is specially a real boon: I usually finish my games with at least 10’000 ‘useless’ gold (sometimes I get 25’000+), having build everything possible (and some rather stupid on top of that). Marketplaces, banks, stock exchange and Smith Trading Co. means that you can buy cash all your factories, for instance, or maintain a huge military and still build everything (building is easy, paying the upkeep is a different story).
    Even the military is not that bad: a French Knight is still a Knight, after all.

    So, give the French a chance, they will reward you well.


    PS: it’s time for me to say adieu to the French for a while, other civs are looking interesting (a PP or PUP game with the Americans, hmmm…).
    The Mountain Sage of the Swiss Alps

  • #2
    Re: Civ-Specific Strategy: French

    Originally posted by Mountain Sage
    Why not have threads for each Civ with comments, strategies, tips etc.?
    Civ-Specific Strategy: Aztecs
    Civ-Specific Strategy: Arabs
    Civ-Specific Strategy: English
    Civ-Specific Strategy: Babylonians

    None of them were quite as good as the Americans' thread but if anyone wanted to post anything useful in them...

    You get 1 extra gold for cities up to size 12 and 2 extra gold for cities size 12+.
    No, that's 2 extra commerce at size 7-12 and 3 at 13+
    It's better than you think. conversely:
    each city from size 7+ produces 1 more shield.
    Actually only at 13+

    Finally, the optimal number of cities on a set map is increased by 25% instead of 12,5% (dixit Soren). The only drawback I can see is that on small (and sometimes standard) maps it will be more difficult to build the FP.
    The quarter increase in the OCN is rounded down and is applied after the difficulty level. This can be important eg. on a standard map at Emperor, that's 3 cities out of 15.8 but on Deity, it's only 2 out of 13.2 making a big difference to the usefulness of the trait.

    In Communism, it's only 10%.

    It has no effect on how many cities are needed to build the FP.
    Of course, the bigger the map, the more effective this trait is (more cities = less corruption = more production + more gold).
    But on a smaller map with it's lower OCN, Commercial is more important earlier. For a warmonger Commercial can be useful before Scientific or Religious but this is more important on a smaller map.

    Get writing after 40 turns (and Pottery with a goodie-hut!) and you have two possibilities, either go for Literature and the Great Library, or go for Map Making and the Great Lighthouse.

    Put the two traits together and via Mathematics, Philosophy and Code of Laws go for the Republic. Since these techs are not the first researched by the AI, milk it dry.
    The AI does go for Writing, Mapmaking, code of laws and philosophy reasonably fast. OTOH starting researching Mathematics first is a decent use of both your traits (proivided you've met other people of course, on your Archipelago Mapmaking is often going to be better).

    Carthage’s GA is triggered in the Ancient Times, which, IM(H)O, is not the best thing if you are at war, since you want your GA for rexing and building improvements, not military units.
    On the contrary if you're going to war on your own terms, there's no need to trigger your GA. The merc is often a decent deterrent anyway. If you are in trouble, a despotic GA building units is a good idea. I've often had a middle-aged GA with Carthage.

    I know that France was your favorite civ pre-PTW but now, although still good, it is outclassed by Carthage.

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    • #3
      I play with france very often. I was playing with germans before, but I had always problems with my neighbours. They thougth, I am an aggresive warmonger and they declared war to me very often without any reason. With the french I don't have this problem so often. I can build my empire peacfully....

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      • #4
        Re: Civ-Specific Strategy: French

        Originally posted by Mountain Sage
        Why not have threads for each Civ with comments, strategies, tips etc.?
        We tried that, but it tried to do too many at once and the later ones were not as...inspired. Other than the Americans one, I did an Aztecs one, which you can find here.

        It would be really nice if we could get one of these out, say, per month, maybe more if there are interested writers. I've not read this one yet, but it looks good so far!


        Dominae
        And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...

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        • #5
          I like the Ind/Com combo on Deity especially. It allows you to go for Mathmatics right off, which is the only 'first tech' a player can get at 40 turns (almost) every time and still be the first one to get it. Then Currency is available, which is another good 40 turn tech option, especially if you can hold Mathmatics for a few turns.

          With good trading sense, Alphabet, Masonry, Mathmatics, and Currency will allow the player to make it out of the Ancient Era as fast as the AI on Deity... peacefully, at minimum research, and without huts. I don't think any other combination can do that consistantly.

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          • #6
            While agree with what you say, I do have one reservation. That is that I will not have contact with very many civs early in the game and therefore trading tech is not a big help.

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            • #7
              Oui, France est très bien. Their especially good in a huge map and their UU comes at a perfect time to pull ahead. I agree with everyone that the early techs allow France to compete in the Ancient age at higher levels. The traits allow for the construction of a huge country with many cities.
              "The Pershing Gulf War began when Satan Husane invaided Kiwi and Sandy Arabia. This was an act of premedication."
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              • #8
                Re: Re: Civ-Specific Strategy: French

                Originally posted by Dominae

                It would be really nice if we could get one of these out, say, per month, maybe more if there are interested writers.
                Dominae
                Yes, I'm sure many people would be interested.
                One problem I see is that these civ-specific threads get 'swamped' by newer ones, and after a while it gets difficult finding them again.

                I was wondering if it was sensible to create a new directory as Civilization III>Civ-3 Specific Civs.

                We would have to switch from one forum to another, that's true, but we would get a 'permanency' for these threads.

                If you take into account that in September/October we'll get a bunch of new civs...

                Please think about it and let us know. You'll certainly have better contacts with the 'gods above' (moderators and such) to convince them if you think my idea makes sense.
                The Mountain Sage of the Swiss Alps

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                • #9
                  I'm actually a big fan of the French, I found them to be very usefull in huge maps because of their commercial trait.

                  Never played them on Deity so I can't give an opinions on this regard, but on emperor I usually could get the Great Library and amass pretty large armies.

                  Now, the UU is VERY underrated. Sure, it's no Siphai, but I found Musketeers to be fairly good at beating off counterattacks and good at taking out med infs of swordsmen on flat terrain. Plus, their golden age comes at probably the best time in the game, when you can start building universities and wonders which can be game winners. I'm a big fan of mid-late medieval GA's, and the Musketteer fits right smack in that periord.

                  So, on SP I would definitely choose France over Carthage, in fact, I would choose France over any other civ besides Egypt in SP, ok, maybe tied with the Ottomans on standard maps and below.

                  In MP however, I would choose Carthage instead...
                  A true ally stabs you in the front.

                  Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

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                  • #10
                    Mountain Sage, I don't think we need a directory for civ-specific strategies. A master thread with links to other threads will probably be good enough. Better make it a thread with that nice 'top'-tag next to them

                    Liked your analysis though
                    Don't eat the yellow snow.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bongo
                      Mountain Sage, I don't think we need a directory for civ-specific strategies. A master thread with links to other threads will probably be good enough. Better make it a thread with that nice 'top'-tag next to them

                      Liked your analysis though
                      Fine for me, except that I just don't know how to do that. I might be 'the Master of the French' , but my computer skills are below those of a 10-years old kid...
                      The Mountain Sage of the Swiss Alps

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                      • #12
                        I guess you have to be an admin to grant a thread 'top' status.
                        Don't eat the yellow snow.

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                        • #13
                          Keep in mind that the Carthiginians are also Commercial/ Industrious. They also have the Numidian Mercs as their UUs.

                          I haven't yet played the Civ, but it looks like a killer combination.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dexters

                            I haven't yet played the Civ, but it looks like a killer combination.
                            It is, especially in MP
                            A true ally stabs you in the front.

                            Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bongo
                              I guess you have to be an admin to grant a thread 'top' status.
                              or a mod... btw, who's the mod of the strat forum? that's a question i've been dying to ask for the last 4 months....
                              A true ally stabs you in the front.

                              Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

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