Building Pyramids Under Deity

[ToeTruck]

I've been experimenting with building the Pyramids in Deity games. Under Monarch and Emperor, the Pyramids come pretty naturally without resorting to extreme behavior.

But under Deity, building the Pyramids is fraught with difficulty. Even if I play an industrious civ and only build two Warriors before I switch to the Pyramids, it's not a sure thing. If I take the time to build a Settler first, the chance goes way done.

Then, even when I do build the Pyramids, I find myself hemmed in most of the time able to squeak out only about 6-12 cities without going to war.

So...what do you do? Conquer a city with the Pyramids? Build it right off? Something else? Not bother with it?

- TT

[vmxa1]

Not bother with it. Grab some land.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Not bother with it. Grab some land.

Correct. It's a lost cause, and you're only hurting your REX effort, which is vital to winning on deity.

[vmxa1]

Unless I get a Leader, I am happy to get two Ancient wonders. After PTW it got a lot harder IMO.
It takes a super start for me to do more than 2 without a leader on a standard map. If I tried, I would suffer some place else and I am not guarantee to get the wonder I am trying to get. I can't risk it.

[Cruddy]

It is possible with good start terrain. Having 2 game sqaures and a couple of hills to mine makes it possible within an Industrious civ.

Apart from that, without a GL, it's almost impossible. I would say impossible but I'm just average at the early game.

[DaveMcW]

1. Pyramids = 400 shields
2. Granary + 7 settlers + 13 warriors = 400 shields
3. Barracks + 3 settlers + 9 Horsemen/Swordmen = 400 shields

The second and third options look a lot better, considering how fast the AI expands.

[vulture]

It's not quite that straight forwards though. A city that is building pyramids is going to end up quite a large city before the build is complete. A city that is pumping out settlers and warriors - even with a granary - is not going to produce as many shields in the same time frame.

And although having 30 horsemen is better than having 20 of them, if 20 are enough to beat back all the local AIs into punchbag status early on, then the city that was producing the extra 10 horsemen may be better spent producing a wonder.

Of course, it depends a lot (as always) on the game situation - closeness of neighbours, size of continent, do you have any good settler pumps in your first few cities, etc.

[vmxa1]

vulture you have a point, but it actually suggest another serious problem for the early wonder at deity.
Happy citizens. Your city will be forced to do something to keep the people happy and that will be a cost that could be doing something better.
Building the settlers/troops means you keep the pop down and easy to make happy.
Once you have some lux and temple and such then you can handle a larger city size and look to make a wonder.
Later having those units means, the AI will be less inclinded to see you as a patsy. You may even be able to use them to hurt another civ.

[ToeTruck]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
1. Pyramids = 400 shields
2. Granary + 7 settlers + 13 warriors = 400 shields
3. Barracks + 3 settlers + 9 Horsemen/Swordmen = 400 shields

The second and third options look a lot better, considering how fast the AI expands.

I definitely agree that that the Pyramids is not the best option. I'm just experimenting with different ways to play.

Even when I do get the Pyramids built and end up with less than a dozen cities, I usually can muster a win from the situation. I like playing that kind of tight game; it's a real challenge.

- TT

[ToeTruck]

Replying to vmxa1's and vulture's discussion, I agree that the value equation is not simple at all.

Having a big city early is not that much of a hardship, though. If you have a luxury in your radius, you can get a size 11 city with 20-30%. And, in the case of building Pyramids, it cranks down in pop pretty quickly afterwards.

I played one game where I had the whole continent to myself and simply exploded after building the Pyramids. I can't say that I wouldn't have done as well just building Granaries when needed, but since I was all alone, I probably wouldn't have research Pottery myself.

This game was with Carthage and I was researching straight to Currency and Construction. Turned out great, but it is the exception.

- TT

[Mr Waffleberry]

There is one alternative to the problem of not being able to expand on diety when making a a early wonder.

Consider the possibility of picking a expansionist civilization and hunting down those tribes. You end up getting a 1/4 chance of getting a settler as long as your city is not making one. Obviously this has a drawback that you might find the settler far from your capital, but can make this delay more hospitable.

If one were to try this, you might want to make two scouts. In this way, you will explore and find those tribes twice as fast. But be careful, in games other then sedentary, those barbarians can be very annoying when moving your scouts around.

-ronnie

[Master Zen]

Forget about the Pyramids in Deity, better REX like there's no tomorrow. If there's one ancient era wonder I'd try to get its the Great Library and in some cases the Colossus.

[ToeTruck]

Let me rephrase my question...as a challenge

I hear you all loud and clear. Under Deity, building the Pyramids is not the best option. There are lots of other things you can do to improve your chance of winning.

So, let's back up a second and assume you're looking for a challenge.

Let's call this a PyrCC (A Pyramid City Challenge). Heh.

The big rule is:

You can't have a second city until you have built the Pyramids. No Settlers from huts, no Culture flip, no nothing. Sound like fun?

Other rules are are:
1) Standard Map
2) Raging Barbs
3) Any Land Mass and Climate
4) Any Civ
5) Seven rivals
6) All Victory Conditions enabled
7) No accelerated production
8) Deity is preferred, but you can play at any level

We're looking for earliest Victory no matter of what type. Cultural, Spaceship, Diplomatic, or Conquest are fine. Just get the "Victory Screen" to show us the money.

Spin a start and see how it goes. Keep a log if you can.

I think I'll start playing now.

- TT

[vmxa1]

I will be interest in some AAR's, but right now I am trying to finsh Nightmare mode with a Druid and jsut got into Act III.

[Mountain Sage]

Re: Let me rephrase my question...as a challenge

Originally posted by ToeTruck
I hear you all loud and clear. Under Deity, building the Pyramids is not the best option. There are lots of other things you can do to improve your chance of winning.

So, let's back up a second and assume you're looking for a challenge.

Let's call this a PyrCC (A Pyramid City Challenge). Heh.

The big rule is:

You can't have a second city until you have built the Pyramids. No Settlers from huts, no Culture flip, no nothing. Sound like fun?

Other rules are are:
1) Standard Map
2) Raging Barbs
3) Any Land Mass and Climate
4) Any Civ
5) Seven rivals
6) All Victory Conditions enabled
7) No accelerated production
8) Deity is preferred, but you can play at any level

We're looking for earliest Victory no matter of what type. Cultural, Spaceship, Diplomatic, or Conquest are fine. Just get the "Victory Screen" to show us the money.

Spin a start and see how it goes. Keep a log if you can.

I think I'll start playing now.

- TT

Why don't you post this as a separate thread for a future AU game?