Best Wonders?

[Catt]

With a big grain of salt that it all depends on the specific game and map . . .

. . . in no particular order:

Pyramids
Sun Tzu's
Adam Smith's
Hoover Dam

Seems I have a yen for maintenance-free city improvements

Catt

[Nakar Gabab]

I think with good reason, Catt. Think about it this way. Not only do you get free city improvements and/or no-upkeep city improvements (depends on the wonder), you get the benefits of that EVERY TURN. In addition to whatever the free building (if you get one, i.e. from anything but Adam Smith's) does, you also recoup the gold cost you WOULD have spent on upkeep, PER improvement, PER city. Given the size of most empires I've seen favored by players, that's a pretty hefty sum. You also get the opportunity cost of not having to build the improvements yourself, saving the shields and time.

The long-term benefits are... well... incalculable.

Smith's doesn't actually GIVE you a free improvement, meaning you get no opportunity cost savings, but the sheer number of improvements it covers means you don't have to CARE. If it only covered Marketplaces and Banks, that would be one thing. Given all it covers in PTW, it's an immeasurable benefit and might even make building lots of coastal cities a viable concept. I tend to stray from coastal cities... but with free marketplace/bank/harbor/stock exchange/commercial dock, you're looking at real cash cows. Season to taste with the Colossus and perhaps, if you're very lucky, Copernicus/Newton's...

[Arrian]

I tend to stray from coastal cities... but with free marketplace/bank/harbor/stock exchange/commercial dock, you're looking at real cash cows. Season to taste with the Colossus and perhaps, if you're very lucky, Copernicus/Newton's...

Definitely. I had such a city in my last game. Perhaps I'll dig up a screenshot (minus the commercial dock, I hadn't gotten there yet). The SuperScienceCity isn't quite what it was in CivII, but it can still be very nice.

By the way, speaking of the Colossus... I think it is one of the most cost effective wonders in the game. Think about it! +1 commerce per tile until flight. Get that city up to size 12, and that's +12 base commerce/turn for a very long time (minus some to corruption, let's say 1-2). So +10 base commerce/turn (more, once you build a hospital & boost the city's size again) until Flight. For a 200 shield investment. Not too shabby.

I really like the Colossus.

-Arrian

[Snotty]

I too am a big fan of the Colossus. Its unique mix of the 3 traits (com/exp/rel) can be a real boon to any number of civs hoping to get their GA through wonder building. Unfortunately I have to avoid it like the plague when playing the English and Indians (amongst others) as would trigger it far too early.

[Arrian]

That's the downside to it, no doubt about it. It triggers GAs for too many civs, especially in concert with some other desirable wonders.

I think they outta drop either "religious" or "expansionist" from the Colossus.

-Arrian

[Krakan]

Hmm.....in the most recent games ( monarch and 1 emporer, just started my first Deity level game ) I've played, the most key great wonders have been:

1.) Great Library, I warmonger too much and build science infrastructure too little

2.) Sistine Chapel, the extra happiness definitely helps during wars while in Republic or Democracy

3.) Leonardo's Workshop, again, twice as many upgrades for the same price = lots of warmongering

4.) Adam's Smith and Hoover are a tie... Production or money

I can almost always get all of these four ( or five ) on Monarch, and most of them I got on Emporer ( missed Adam Smith's ). I usually play militaristic, so Sun Tzu's isn't really worth the shields and time.

[Egbert]

Originally posted by Arrian
Sun Tzu is nice, but I think it's more of a convenience thing than anything else. Come on, admit it, most of us like it because you can just hit shift+U and *presto* your upgrading is done.
-Arrian

Yes. The shift+U = presto is what makes this very, very attractive otherwise I might not build it.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Arrian
That's the downside to it, no doubt about it. It triggers GAs for too many civs, especially in concert with some other desirable wonders.

-Arrian

Yep,

With my French, Colossus+Pyramids=GA much too soon.

Then you have to choose: you can go for the Colossus, Pyramids, GLighthouse and GLibrary, but then, when do you REX?

[Nakar Gabab]

Sun Tzu's is actually really, really helpful in conquests. Remember that units in a city with a barracks heal in a single turn once the city is out of resistance. I normally like to rush a temple in new cities to ensure a culture spread, but without Sun Tzu's I must also either withdraw my troops to the nearest stronghold with a barracks, or else rush a barracks in the new city and keep my troops around even longer. Inconvenient as heck. With Sun Tzu's, I've already got a barracks waiting for me, so my units can heal up and keep fighting just as soon as resistance is crushed.

That said, I almost always steal Sun Tzu's rather than build it.

[TheArsenal]

Sun Tzu: Agreed. Crucial for me. I prefer to bombard cities for a few turns in hopes of destroying the barracks and reducing the effective strength of any units the AI produces in that city afterward. And in a highly mobile front using fast movers, I use wounded units to stave off resistance in cities, then put them back into attack once healed and the slow moving defensive units arrive.

Favorite wonders:
1. GL
2. Sun Tzu
3. Leonardo's Workshop
4. Adam Smith's

All wonders (GL notwithstanding) geared to basically to build better, cheaper, more effective units.

Hoover barely missed the list. Great wonder, and I always try to get it, but it comes late enough that it isn't crucial. Colossus barely missed as well.

[sabrewolf]

as a more builder type, i don't really care about leo's. sun tzu however is pretty, but not vital.

my preference:
1. Adam Smith's: save cost of marketplace (1gpt) in every city, harbors in (1gpt) all coastal cities and banks and stock exchanges (2 gpt) in the larger cities... that's approx. 5 gold in average per turn per city... so easily 100 gold or more each turn (and, it motivates to build banks and stock exchanges which anyway bring more cash).
2. Pyramids: great, no further explanaintion needed. i don't usually get it because my expansion isn't fast enough if my best city is building this. but it's a must on large maps!
3. Sistine's Chapel: get 3 less unhappy people in all larger cities (with cathedrals)... also, great for culture
4. Theory of Evolution: if you time it right, you can get the "expensive" techs (atomic theory and electronics) for free and you'll surely get hoover's dam (which would be number 5 on my list, but only worth it on larger landmasses)

the great library only once really helped me (slingshot through medieval ages), but usually i either am not far behing the AI, too near to education (scientific civs mostly get monotheism, that's just 2 techs away from an obsolete GL). in easier games i sometimes just build it so no other civ gets it

oh, and the colossus is wonderful in one of the core cities, but usually my coastal lack production to get the wonder.

[Daz]

- Hoover Dam on large continent
- Sistine Chapel - gotta keep em happy
- Theory of evolution - keep me ahead of the competition AND I get to choose the direction...
- Collossus - if I have a suitabe city

I dont like the Pyramids cause a lot of population early on just creates a lot of unrest and the granary is not that expensive to build if I really need it.

[rush]

1. Great Library - it's really hard to keep up with Research at the higher difficuiltly levels
2. Collossus - Did not understand the benefit of Collossus until I play Greece in the OCC. It's awesome, adding so much Commerce every turn until Flight.
3. TOE - to catch up/move ahead in Industrial Age
4. Hoover Dam - production boost

Close runners up,
Pyramid - I can't build both GL and Pyramid in higer difficuilty, so it's GL for me.
Lighthouse - Depending on Maps
Adam Smith - saves lot of $. But the Adam Smith in Civ II is more powerful.

Actually, by looking at the preference posted, you can actually tell whether one is a warmonger or builder

[Zero]

My ranking:

Colossus: You call yourself a warmonger? An ultra early aggressive player? Then colossus is da shizzle my man. You get extra commerce. Nothting beats that. My main objective is to always survey the area for nice coastal city sites w/ possibly fishes covering the coastal city squares. I dont mind the early GA. In fact to me in feels just in time (cauz Im ultra early aggressive type of guy... )

All other wonders are not important to me. Most wonders that give effect to particular cities can be avoided. Those wonders that give effect to the civ as whole does not matter if I build it. So I usually try to put them off as much as I can. So my second and third best wonder would be:

Pyramid and Sistine: Not only are they one of the best "gives effect to whole civ" wonder, They depend on which continent it is on.. So its important that this wonder is on my continent. I usually try to build it. Pyramid I often leave it to my luck... Sometimes AIs dont build it right away, or even better its on my continent.

[Inverse Icarus]

Sun Tzu, Leo's, Hoover, Smiths. close 5th is Evolution.