Machiavellian Geopolitiking

[dexters]

There was another thread on XP wishlist and the unit trading issue was mentioned.

I am in fact NOT opposed to unit trading in principle. Firaxis' concenrs over the AI being manipulated, can, I believe, be corrected with a fairly strict set of rules, which includes the AI putting a negative value on units that are outdated compared to what it can build. Units it cannot build will receive a higher value, and units it can build will receive a value of a fraction of the actual production cost. (ie: 1/4) So if a unit costs 160 shields to build, the AI will pay 40 gold for it.

There could then be a unit cap on how much the AI is willing to pay, and the AI could probably get additional codinfg on its income management as not to be flooded with units by the human players in order to cripple it financially.

Getting back to Yahweh's concern, the unit trading can perhaps be enabled only under MPP and military alliances. That I think can reasonably be implemented in a potential future XP for Civ3.

But to make it even more interesting, I'd actually introduce a new diplomatic option, called a mutual aid pact, which allows unit trading with civilizations without having to form military alliances and is fairly easy to establish. This sort of pact would be in addition to a trade pact that would allow for abstracted goods to flow between civilizations with both civs receiving a bonus.

Think about this. I am America and I establish a trade pact wiht China. The game uses a formula, possibly using the existing resource trades as some of its base values, and I would automatically receive added gpt from international trade. This would encourage players to trade internationally and be less of a warmonger. The idea of a trade pact can be further expanded to included a two sliders (one for each side) that range from "worst" to "best", so that two friendly civs would be on the "best" of terms and receiveadded gpt. A powerful Civ may also demand a "best" trade deal for themselves from a weaker civ who may not be inclined to provide it. And the options for waging economic war just opens up.

Hmmm... I may make a thread on this.

Disccuss

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

A very solid proposal, Dexters. Civs should be able to actually MERGE without warfare. Seems bizarre? Well, I all I can say is look at NATO, look at the EU, look at FTAA, etc...

[Jog]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth


Yes, but to the extent that civ is modeled on reality, there are a two problems with your reasoning:

1. Once a nation is supplied with a piece of military hardware, it is quite easy for them to figure out how to produce that hardware themselves. Whether or not they have the resources and capital availible is another question, of course.

2. Anyone can tell where specific items of warfare are produced. Similarly, even with small arms, it's easy to tell who's backing insurgencies, etc. Just slapping paint on the hardware involved doesn't do the trick.

1) This is true. It would be easy to replicate such hardware in real life. But I think this could be overlooked in Civ. It doesn't have to be THAT realisitic. And besides, if the nation to whom I'm supplying units already has the financial and resource ability to mass produce these units, I wouldn't be aiding them in the first place!

2) I'm not quite sure I understand your point. When you think about it, the entire roster of Civ units are all generic and the same. The game actually does just slap some paint on the hardware so we can tell who's team its on...??? My tank is no different from Japan's or Persia's tank except for the color of the paint..

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Er, well, I'm just saying, I don't object to the idea of donating units necessarily, I just feel that in doing so:

a. The recieving civ must get the tech the unit is based on, and

b. Others civs should realize where that unit COMES from. So maybe if you're America and you donate a tank to Carthage to fight Persia, then Persia sees a maroon-colored tank with a little "A" next to it, or something...

...I also feel that the guerilla unit should be of a hidden nationality, just like the privateer. This would reflect real-life, modern insurgencies. In other words, it would allow Russia to attack France without ever declaring war... and all the French could do in return would be attack back with more guerillas!

[Ubergeek]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth

...I also feel that the guerilla unit should be of a hidden nationality, just like the privateer. This would reflect real-life, modern insurgencies. In other words, it would allow Russia to attack France without ever declaring war... and all the French could do in return would be attack back with more guerillas!

I've modded my guerillas to be 2/2/1 units with the Offensive, Invisible and Detect Invisible tags, and the AI actually does quite a nice job of using them to irritate me, slipping them behind my lines to pillage and kill workers and such. I may experiment with the idea of removing the nationality tag...on the other hand, since the AI never uses Privateers, they probably wouldn't use Guerillas like that either and only I would gain any advantage...

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Ubergeek
...on the other hand, since the AI never uses Privateers, they probably wouldn't use Guerillas like that either and only I would gain any advantage...

They might use privateers if you would give them a little more advantage.

They do with my mod (2/2/4, bombard of 2/1/1, still costs 60). They'll make pests of themselves harrasing your wooden ships and trying to pillage your coastal areas.

[Ubergeek]

Originally posted by Jaybe

They might use privateers if you would give them a little more advantage.

Really? I've modded my Privateers higher than that, but then I also modded my other naval units extensively too. I made Privateers have a much higher attack than defense, but I didn't give them a bombardment value. I would think it would be the bombardment value that makes the AI use them -- the AI lurves bombarding with naval units...

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Wow! I didn't even realize that there WAS an invisibility tag in Civ3. I remember that from Civ2!

[dexters]

IMO, the rep hit you take from a hidden nationality unit is annoying.

I mean, I understand that rational nation states may suspect you for pulling a stunt, but shouldn't there be some randomness where sometimes, they may miss it?