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History 101 - A message to GS
OK. This moral high-ground that GS is claiming is just getting to be a bit too much. If it wasn't so self-righteous, it would be humorous. (Well, actually, most of it is kind of humorous.) So, take off your rose-colored glasses my friends, and let's look at some history.
Back to the early days. You, GS, were in somewhat of pickle and we both knew it. We had bronze and iron working, and contact with the continent. You had none of these. In the spirit of co-operation - and I acknowledge the other tensions which existed at the time - we made the early trade which gave parity to the military situation. And don't tell us that chariots could still have made a difference, as with mountains and jungles from coast to coast - we both knew you could not get at us.
We then signed "the trade pact", and we shared technology - by whatever means we obtained it. And we, Vox, provided contact with the continental civs. We did not hold our early advantage over you; we saw it as an investment in the future. Maybe we should have thought twice about this.
So let's review this trade arrangement, and who got what out of it. Here are the facts.
---------------------
Vox to GS:
---------------------
bronze working
iron working
warrior code
mysticism
mathematics
horseback riding
philosophy
monotheism
total - 71 research points
other -
75 gold - Lux situation
contact with GoW
contact with NeuD
contact with RP
--------------------
GS to Vox
--------------------
the wheel
alphabet
writing
literature
code of laws
republic
total - 65 research points
other-
8 gold - part of previous trade (HB Riding)
20 gold - Vox map making (still owing)
I have excluded the recent currency and construction trade - because as you will recall, we had indicated to you that we would provide these. And in fact we could have if necessary.
And you still owe us the 20 for the map-making deal - as you gave in to GoW's demand for a no-trade clause over our trade agreement, forcing us to pay for it, and then not sharing in the costs. We have asked for these funds on three separate occasions. If you would care to forward them to a neutral 3rd party, I am sure they would pass them on to us.
So, now that our starting position advantage of contact with the continent is gone, and your starting position advantage of terrain has taken hold, this treaty no longer works for you. And please spare us the talk about cancelling it with advance notice . You have already modified it once to your advantage without notice - I recall that we had little choice about it. And we have heard the snippets back from various sources about how we are no longer much of a research and trading partner - and therefore no longer needed. You were planning on dropping us soon altogether from the trade deal. And spare us the denials on this one as well. Yes - we broke the treaty, but simply before you dropped us from it.
And there was the land situation. This was a treaty reached early on, when tensions were still high. You more or less acknowledged that the split of land was not fair - but that this was the way it was going to be. You will recall the chat, Nathan. Your advantage of geographic starting position gave you the right, in your view, to claim the majority share of the land on Estonia. As we do not have a map of your land - yet - only you can tell us how fair this 'split' really is.
And there are the observers. Most of the observers, including our two, are situated near the border areas. However, GS claimed the right to have one 6 tiles inside our territory, on a mountain, and with the ability to oversee everything which moved between North and South Estonia. We have a city south of this observer. Vox was not given any reciprocal advantage of this nature. You can imagine how insulting this was to have 'big brother' watching over you.
Then there was the Lux situation. Yes - 150 gold from the Luxian treasury was provided to Vox as part of the initial city swap. And yes - you guessed it - Gathering Storm - so worried about the upset of balance of power on our continent from a barely breathing civ- demanded and was given 75 of it. You did nothing; nor contributed anything to Lux's survival. You did insist, however, that Lux could not keep any troops in the city and kept an observer to make sure that didn't happen.
I admit - from my own personal perspective - that the one strategic and moral error that Vox has made was in eliminating Lux. That is a long complex story which will come out in due time. The blood of Lux is clearly on our hands.
Then there was our attempt to settle Bob. And GS members have mentioned in the other thread how they were so supportive of our efforts and how could we forget that. Well guys, writing about it is fine - its a bit like a strat forum post. But you see when NeuD and GoW support each other - they show up with swordsmen and horsemen. At no time did you, GS, ever offer any substantive support of any kind - either militarily or monetary. Even when it was suggested that if we could obtain sufficient land - we could turn over some of our Estonian land to you.
Shiber has also mentioned these 'errors' that our team has made. Well - yes - we are a small team - none of us are builder/infrastructure specialists. But we have learned quickly. That was one of the purposes of the game, was it not. And we did not start with the expertise that GS did. That is clear to all. But if we had not put our efforts into building the road that we did, or putting a city in the far south to claim the land - I suspect we wouldn't even have that territory to work with. So, unless you were playing this game from our perspective, you might want to hold your comments about what was right or wrong for Vox to have done.
As I wrap up, I admit that the GS observer warrior did not move to our road. He was taken out where he has stood - in Voxian territory - for all these years. But heh, do you really believe everything you read in the newspaper or see on CNN?
In conclusion, if you want to know why this war is occurring, read the history from someone else's book, not just your own. And get off the moral high-ground. You have no right to be there either.
Saying that, I fully acknowledge that we will all have different perspectives on what has transpired. What is key - as Churchill said - is that history is written by the victors.
Or I guess, in this case, Trip.
And three final points.
This is a game. Let's remember that.
And our team ... We are a small, but tight team. Our members are honorable and decent folks. We are in this game, as I'm sure are all of you, to learn, yes, to try to win, but mostly to have fun. So cut the personal stuff. To insinuate that all members of Vox are dishonorable, and cannot be trusted in the future because of what we have done so far in this game is absolute nonsense. Each team is made up of individuals, all who bring different perspectives, ideas, and strengths. And each team has to play the game as they think best, given the situation they are in. If we were on Lego all by ourselves, happily building away, everyone would think we were a fine upstanding nation. But that is not the hand we were dealt. Our team decided to attack GS because we feel it is our best course of action. Pure and simple. And with all due respect - we weren't going to give you 20 turns notice.
And finally - if you have any comments on any of this - please talk to an Immortal. There is one coming soon to a neighborhood near you.
OK. This moral high-ground that GS is claiming is just getting to be a bit too much. If it wasn't so self-righteous, it would be humorous. (Well, actually, most of it is kind of humorous.) So, take off your rose-colored glasses my friends, and let's look at some history.
Back to the early days. You, GS, were in somewhat of pickle and we both knew it. We had bronze and iron working, and contact with the continent. You had none of these. In the spirit of co-operation - and I acknowledge the other tensions which existed at the time - we made the early trade which gave parity to the military situation. And don't tell us that chariots could still have made a difference, as with mountains and jungles from coast to coast - we both knew you could not get at us.
We then signed "the trade pact", and we shared technology - by whatever means we obtained it. And we, Vox, provided contact with the continental civs. We did not hold our early advantage over you; we saw it as an investment in the future. Maybe we should have thought twice about this.
So let's review this trade arrangement, and who got what out of it. Here are the facts.
---------------------
Vox to GS:
---------------------
bronze working
iron working
warrior code
mysticism
mathematics
horseback riding
philosophy
monotheism
total - 71 research points
other -
75 gold - Lux situation
contact with GoW
contact with NeuD
contact with RP
--------------------
GS to Vox
--------------------
the wheel
alphabet
writing
literature
code of laws
republic
total - 65 research points
other-
8 gold - part of previous trade (HB Riding)
20 gold - Vox map making (still owing)
I have excluded the recent currency and construction trade - because as you will recall, we had indicated to you that we would provide these. And in fact we could have if necessary.
And you still owe us the 20 for the map-making deal - as you gave in to GoW's demand for a no-trade clause over our trade agreement, forcing us to pay for it, and then not sharing in the costs. We have asked for these funds on three separate occasions. If you would care to forward them to a neutral 3rd party, I am sure they would pass them on to us.
So, now that our starting position advantage of contact with the continent is gone, and your starting position advantage of terrain has taken hold, this treaty no longer works for you. And please spare us the talk about cancelling it with advance notice . You have already modified it once to your advantage without notice - I recall that we had little choice about it. And we have heard the snippets back from various sources about how we are no longer much of a research and trading partner - and therefore no longer needed. You were planning on dropping us soon altogether from the trade deal. And spare us the denials on this one as well. Yes - we broke the treaty, but simply before you dropped us from it.
And there was the land situation. This was a treaty reached early on, when tensions were still high. You more or less acknowledged that the split of land was not fair - but that this was the way it was going to be. You will recall the chat, Nathan. Your advantage of geographic starting position gave you the right, in your view, to claim the majority share of the land on Estonia. As we do not have a map of your land - yet - only you can tell us how fair this 'split' really is.
And there are the observers. Most of the observers, including our two, are situated near the border areas. However, GS claimed the right to have one 6 tiles inside our territory, on a mountain, and with the ability to oversee everything which moved between North and South Estonia. We have a city south of this observer. Vox was not given any reciprocal advantage of this nature. You can imagine how insulting this was to have 'big brother' watching over you.
Then there was the Lux situation. Yes - 150 gold from the Luxian treasury was provided to Vox as part of the initial city swap. And yes - you guessed it - Gathering Storm - so worried about the upset of balance of power on our continent from a barely breathing civ- demanded and was given 75 of it. You did nothing; nor contributed anything to Lux's survival. You did insist, however, that Lux could not keep any troops in the city and kept an observer to make sure that didn't happen.
I admit - from my own personal perspective - that the one strategic and moral error that Vox has made was in eliminating Lux. That is a long complex story which will come out in due time. The blood of Lux is clearly on our hands.
Then there was our attempt to settle Bob. And GS members have mentioned in the other thread how they were so supportive of our efforts and how could we forget that. Well guys, writing about it is fine - its a bit like a strat forum post. But you see when NeuD and GoW support each other - they show up with swordsmen and horsemen. At no time did you, GS, ever offer any substantive support of any kind - either militarily or monetary. Even when it was suggested that if we could obtain sufficient land - we could turn over some of our Estonian land to you.
Shiber has also mentioned these 'errors' that our team has made. Well - yes - we are a small team - none of us are builder/infrastructure specialists. But we have learned quickly. That was one of the purposes of the game, was it not. And we did not start with the expertise that GS did. That is clear to all. But if we had not put our efforts into building the road that we did, or putting a city in the far south to claim the land - I suspect we wouldn't even have that territory to work with. So, unless you were playing this game from our perspective, you might want to hold your comments about what was right or wrong for Vox to have done.
As I wrap up, I admit that the GS observer warrior did not move to our road. He was taken out where he has stood - in Voxian territory - for all these years. But heh, do you really believe everything you read in the newspaper or see on CNN?
In conclusion, if you want to know why this war is occurring, read the history from someone else's book, not just your own. And get off the moral high-ground. You have no right to be there either.
Saying that, I fully acknowledge that we will all have different perspectives on what has transpired. What is key - as Churchill said - is that history is written by the victors.
Or I guess, in this case, Trip.And three final points.
This is a game. Let's remember that.
And our team ... We are a small, but tight team. Our members are honorable and decent folks. We are in this game, as I'm sure are all of you, to learn, yes, to try to win, but mostly to have fun. So cut the personal stuff. To insinuate that all members of Vox are dishonorable, and cannot be trusted in the future because of what we have done so far in this game is absolute nonsense. Each team is made up of individuals, all who bring different perspectives, ideas, and strengths. And each team has to play the game as they think best, given the situation they are in. If we were on Lego all by ourselves, happily building away, everyone would think we were a fine upstanding nation. But that is not the hand we were dealt. Our team decided to attack GS because we feel it is our best course of action. Pure and simple. And with all due respect - we weren't going to give you 20 turns notice.
And finally - if you have any comments on any of this - please talk to an Immortal. There is one coming soon to a neighborhood near you.
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