Vox Public Announcement

[Beta]

Originally posted by Arrian


Oh, do tell.

-Arrian

Remember that book that is due out in some 2000 years - well chapter 4, page 89, tells all.

[Master Zen]

Once again, another great post by Beta, and congrats to both Vox and GS for the sportsmanship they have showed in this thread.

I would like to know if perhaps Trip or some guys from your civs would make some kind of "almanac" of maps and unit orbats and stuff, to show the world after the game is over and all this info is "declassified". It would be cool for archival purposes.

[E_T]

That's about as good of an AAR that we will get before the end of the game.

E_T

[alva]

Remember that book that is due out in some 2000 years - well chapter 4, page 89, tells all.

auh, c'mmon, give us a clue....puhlease...

[Aeson]

I have a pretty good idea of what it was... (and if I don't, none of you will know I'm wrong for 2000 years right? )

[Arrian]

Oh, come one Beta! We answered your questions.

What made you guys move out onto the flats?

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Well, I have to agree with Aeson, we kind of knew at the time what triggered the move off the mountains with half their force (those were 6 or 7 immortals we killed, not 4).

As to pikes getting later in the war: I'm certain we could have held, our production was simply too big to counter, certainly in our GA. At the first sign of war, general feeling was that we could lose 2 or 3 fringe cities if things went badly, but no way Vox could get to our capital. It turned out that they never attacked any of our cities directly (except Inchon, in which they had about as much luck against our units as possible, and we still held), but we were anticipating some losses.

Blocking the Inchon landing site would have been best, however we had a couple of options left. One was moving Inchon a bit, into a less desirable position. The other was going for Vox's core immediately, instead of blocking off most of their army. Both options would have been bloodier for us, but with the same result. And as long as Inchoff got settled and no outside iron was traded to Vox, there was hardly any strategy that could have saved Vox.

I don't think it took us long to have a fairly accurate estimate on the number of immortals we faced, but indeed, we were wrong in not doing the analysis before the war broke out. But, it wasn't really needed to have anything other then a rough guess at that time, Grog was watching over us. If I have to pick one thing that saved us, and ultimately led to victory, it was one (1) bold regular warrior, alone on his mountain. If you really wanted any chance of actually winning, you had to find some way of circumventing him or removing him peacefully, instead of attacking him directly.

Re: Elipolis: it was a "why not try" thing, but only after we saw the odds were good. It's not that we risked too much in getting it, and there were still a lot of things we could have done with those forces. My guess is that it would have taken us about 8-9 turns to get your core completely without Elipolis, 6-7 with. But that depends on the amount of forces defending, it might have been faster then that.

Last point: I never commented on the apology, because I was not certain on how things would progress. Now that it seems peace will be reached (after some negotations), I still want to get a late comment in.

Personally, I don't care for breaking a treaty, trying to bend a situation in which we grew bigger and bigger as opposed to you. I don't think an apology is needed for that, it's not because we will never break a treaty that we have to expect others do the same thing. Nothing wrong happened, in Civ it's perfectly legal to backstab someone.

What I do feel strongly about (and kudos to Beta for posting that as well) is how unfriendly communication became on the public forum, most likely fueled with private communication to other teams (which we did not have, for almost the entireity of this war). I'm one of the GS members who were seriously considering resignation, It became much too grim, and a kind of personal All-teams-against-GS thing, it was far from fun. Most likely most of the statements were not intended as personal attacks, however on our side they were felt like that, and offended me greatly. In return, it lead to outcries on this forum from us (well, from me at least) that only added to the grim atmosphere. I'm very sorry about not having more restraint, however still consider it bad taste to drive someone up to the point were he'd rather just left Apolyton then to continue to get batterred upon. I really hope it is the last time this happens, and I certainly have learned my lesson when it comes to me commenting on other members or teams, no way would I willingly do that to someone else. So in case I get out of line, please bring back memories of this situtation, and I certainly will back down or try to rephrase something that got misunderstood.

DeepO

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by DeepO
What I do feel strongly about (and kudos to Beta for posting that as well) is how unfriendly communication became on the public forum, most likely fueled with private communication to other teams (which we did not have, for almost the entireity of this war). I'm one of the GS members who were seriously considering resignation, It became much too grim, and a kind of personal All-teams-against-GS thing, it was far from fun. Most likely most of the statements were not intended as personal attacks, however on our side they were felt like that, and offended me greatly. In return, it lead to outcries on this forum from us (well, from me at least) that only added to the grim atmosphere. I'm very sorry about not having more restraint, however still consider it bad taste to drive someone up to the point were he'd rather just left Apolyton then to continue to get batterred upon. I really hope it is the last time this happens, and I certainly have learned my lesson when it comes to me commenting on other members or teams, no way would I willingly do that to someone else. So in case I get out of line, please bring back memories of this situtation, and I certainly will back down or try to rephrase something that got misunderstood.

DeepO

But that is exactly the most important dynamic of an inter-team game. The ability of other teams to manipulate the decisions of the another team through words and propaganda alone.

Has Roleplay actually fought anyone? They have done all their world shaping though correspondence and postings. Lego had made everyone back off their continent by very clear postings of threats to those who might even consider it.

These are aspects the AI simply can't perform. Members should not see these as personal attacks on themselves, although it can be entertaining to take them as attacks on the team. I am still waiting for a team to declare war based on the postings of another team and see what the world reaction to that will be like.

[DeepO]

GF, I'm not saying I would like all inter-team communication to stop, I'm saying the slander (is this the right term? always mix them up) was too much, and way too personal.

It's not that Vox should not have tried to gain support, and it is our own fault (well, more precisely our own bad analysis of the situation, were we thought secrecy was the best way of winning the war) we didn't get support from other teams. But the way it was performed we had only one way of perceiving it: as offensive, and as a direct personal attack.

I'm serious when I say I was a few posts away of never returning to 'poly, and believe it or not, but that had nothing to do by being outclassed in a certain aspect of the game. On the contrary, I respect other's skills, in all areas, not just in the things I'm good at myself.

DeepO

[Arrian]

I am still waiting for a team to declare war based on the postings of another team and see what the world reaction to that will be like.

The StormHawk Party is right up your alley then, GF.

-Arrian

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Arrian


The StormHawk Party is right up your alley then, GF.

-Arrian

I thought I was already a member of the StormHowk Party, only the Drizzle Hawk Faction.

Althought the Drizzle Hawk Faction is feeling like changing its name to the Hurricane of Pain Faction.

[Theseus]

I very much feel the pain...

On the one hand, inter-team interaction became, uh, distasteful and just on the edge of unacceptable... thus, especially, some of GS getting way turned off.

On the other hand (and I might be a little bit alone on this, especially in GS), I give two to Vox and Beta.

In the context of every bit of politico-military reading I've ever seen, these guys performed like champs...

Let me say it plainly: Us Strat guys are supposed to be 'the best.' F*ck that... Vox almost NAILED us, TWICE, and for that, they get my highest regard.

[vondrack]

Theseus, !

[Hot_Enamel]

Ditto

Nice post Theseus

[Beta]

*Beta bows.

Thank you Theseus. We appreciate your comments.