Trading Problems/irregularities :/

[rippk]

Here's a question for you all. I'm playing a PTW with one ohter human in turn-based mode. WE are in the 500AD, befoer the discovery of Astronomy, etc. Just galleys.

I have noticed some very odd trading situations.
1) I can only trade with Germans, which are on my continent - but NO roads connected and no harbors that I can see.
2) I cannot trade withSpain, who are also on my ocntinent and very close to me.
3) some turns I can trade with the English, also on same continent, but ehlla far away. I setup a trade, lasts a few turns at best, then just goes away. ????? Why would htis be happening? Either I can trade, or I can't! it's flipped back and forth about 5 times now and it's very irritating! I don't see any harbors for them either
4) German, can trade with EVERYONE, even though they don't have harbours, no one else does, and the aren't connected by roads, or land in some cases!
5) I cannot trade with Rome, even though we both have harbours and are connected by light blue sqaures, i.e. only 2 turns by galley.
6) Cannot trade with Carths, egypt, of aztecs either. But that makes sense because I'm not connencted to them at all.
I'm at peace with all, btw. And tech-wise all civs concerned are about the same (one tech difference maybe)

WTF is going on? As I understand it, civs must be connected by roads, or have harbours and be connected by the lightest blue squares. After the advent of astronomy, connected by medium blue should connect civs with harbors.
Anyone know hte exact conditions for being able to trade? Is it civilization based???

you're help would be appreciated, I need to trade to get horses and will need a host of knights PDQ!

[Dr Shot]

Perhaps this is linked to 'allow cultural conversations'...?

[Switch]

Originally posted by Dr Shot
Perhaps this is linked to 'allow cultural conversations'...?

But if that were true, then by the fact that he can trade with Germany would mean he's European. Therefore, should't he be able to trade with Spain and England consistently (or at all)?
Obviously, either I don't know anything about how the system works, there's something that rippk missed, or he's just discovered a significant bug.

[Catt]

If you haven't bought a world map recently, your map might not show harbors that have been built recently. Is it possible that some harbors have been built? I ask because whenever one civ can make trades but others can't (and when other civs can, but the route can be cut off seemingly randomly), I can usually (eventualy ) trace the seeming anomaly to newly-built harbors and the ownership of the Great Lighthouse. The civ with the GL can trade over sea tiles -- all other civs need a coastal trade route. Could Germany have built the GL, have a sea-route with all known civs, and also sit between you and England so that Germany's good graces are needed for trade between you and England?

Catt

[rippk]

I had just bought world or territory maps from everyone (they were 1-2 gold each, so why not).

That does clear up a few things. Germany did have the great lighthouse, so that is why they could trade with them.
I should not have been able to trade with Spain, they had no harbours.
And the Carths are ok too. I did have a harbour connected to them by coastal squares ... but, after checking, that city wasn't connected to my capital by land or coast.

Everything makes sense EXCEPT for the English. As I mentioned I flipped back and forth between able and not able to trade many many times. Each time I made a trade agreement, each time it just went away because I could not longer trade. I am playing as the Celts ... perhaps this has something to do with it? Tell me more of this cultural conversions thing please. I was at peace with them the whole time, as were the Germans.

[Catt]

Originally posted by rippk
That does clear up a few things. Germany did have the great lighthouse, so that is why they could trade with them.
I should not have been able to trade with Spain, they had no harbours.
And the Carths are ok too. I did have a harbour connected to them by coastal squares ... but, after checking, that city wasn't connected to my capital by land or coast.

Everything makes sense EXCEPT for the English. As I mentioned I flipped back and forth between able and not able to trade many many times. Each time I made a trade agreement, each time it just went away because I could not longer trade. I am playing as the Celts ... perhaps this has something to do with it? Tell me more of this cultural conversions thing please. I was at peace with them the whole time, as were the Germans.

Trade networks are sometimes elusive and often very delicate. One thing to remember is that every civ enjoys the "use" of the trade network of all the other civs - except when at war. So, even if Spain has no harbors, it might be connected by road to a Carthaginian or Gemran city that has harbors (or an X city connected to an X city connected to an X city with a harbor, eg).

Was there sporadic warfare involving Germany and England (or any other countries, including yours, that make up part of the network)? While at peace, England (or you) could be "using" the trade network infrastructure of Germany or any other civ -- in the event of a war, the "use" of that network is interrupted -- basically, England would be deprived of the inter-connecting trade network of some intermediary civ if war were to break out - either involviong England, an intervening civ, or you!

Catt

[rippk]

I was at peace with Gemany the whole time.
It ws 4-5 consecuative turns that this happened, I can't jsut be a result of ties being cut by war ... there wasn't that much war going on! lol

I won't worry about it anymore since it has passed. Definately not normal what ever was going on.

[heysewa]

Trade can be disrupted by barbarians on the trade route either roads or sea lanes. This can happen frequently in light blue sea lanes. To work for trade the harbors must be connected to the civilization's capitol.

[rippk]

ahhhh. I think that was it!!!! freakin barbarians! I remember one that was hanging around my coast. He never dumped off any units, so must have been placed there jsut to disrupt my trade. I will make it a point to kill them in the future!

Thanks everyone, I think it's all cleared up now.

[ToeTruck]

Yes, there is a point in the game where Barb galleys (sometimes in droves) flit mindlessly along the coast looking for a place to land. I have seen the exact thing you just described happen many times.

You have to be careful here. Say you trade a tech for a luxury plus gpt, you could be screwed one or two turns into the agreement. Once the network is broken, the agreement is automatically ended.

Plus, if you have bonus resources like Fish and Whales in your coastal tiles, you will see the same type of fluctuation in your food, shield, and gold production as the Barbs move on and off the bonus tiles.

I've never noticed Barb warriors disrupting the trade network, but I have no reason to believe that isn't true as well.

- TT

[rippk]

I actually used those sparse turns in which I could trade to my advantage. I didn't have any horses ... and needed to get from the English. Once the trade went through, I immediately set my cities to build horsemen. Resources to build are apparently 'used' on the build order, not on completion.
So I was able to bild some horsemen .. but maybe not as many a I liked. Instead, had to make due with the more expensive Gallic Swordsman ... which are better attck and defence, but rather expensive to mass produce!

[ToeTruck]

I've had to make do as well, but what I really found valuable was being on the other side of the trade. i.e. giving a luxury for gold (no per turn thing) and checking back in a couple of turns.

-TT

[Catt]

Originally posted by heysewa
Trade can be disrupted by barbarians on the trade route either roads or sea lanes.

Good call! I forgot completely about barbarian-related disruptions.

Catt

[ToeTruck]

I believe units belonging to a Civ with which you are at war have the same effect.

- TT

[Wittlich]

Yes, you are right ToeTruck.